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From: ".arpis." <rpglover64+jbobau@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2012 00:00:38 -0400
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Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: Is it possible to completely get rid of
 {ku} in speech ?
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On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 1:55 AM,  <arcady.balandin@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Friday, March 23, 2012 12:10:13 AM UTC+4, Pierre Abbat wrote:
>>
>> On Thursday, March 22, 2012 10:15:45 gleki wrote:
>> > https://sites.google.com/site/cernidirgo/menli-bangu-put-koteenka
>> >
>> > The Kitten's Way is still in progress.
>>
>> I don't know Russian well enough to translate into it, but I can read it
>> fairly well.
>>
>> In the Cyrillic alphabet for Lojban, =DF, not =D9, is used for y. =FF is=
 not
>> used as
>> a vowel in Russian, but it is in Bulgarian, and as I understand it (I
>> don't
>> speak Bulgarian), it's closer to Lojban y than =D9 is.
>
> We don't teach Cyrillic writing system there. It's just transcription.
> Unstressed "=D9" sounds like "schwa". It's just like we  all hear it. Alt=
hough
> we are not experts.
>
>> > mi dunda lo plise ku fa'a do - =D1 =C4=C1=C0 =D1=C2=CC=CF=CB=CF =D4=C5=
=C2=C5.
>> I'd say "mi dunda lo plise ku do". "fa'a" is not a proper preposition bu=
t
>> a
>> spatial tense marker (though all tense markers can be used as
>> prepositions)
>> and doesn't denote motion unless preceded by "mo'i".
>
> Do you really think that {mi dunda ti fa'a do} can't have any meaning ?

It has meaning; it's just the wrong meaning. It means that the act of
giving is taking place in your direction, whatever that means.

> It's just what the Kitten's Way is all about.
> We replace x3 with sumtcita in first lessons. Only then we learn about x3
> It's just the policy of this textbook.
>
>> > zo'e pe do - =DE=D4=CF-=D4=CF =CF =D4=C5=C2=C5
>> "pe" isn't a preposition. It can be used to attach a prepositional phras=
e
>> to a
>> sumti (e.g. "le renro pe pa'o lo canko" means "the thrower who is throug=
h
>> a
>> window", which is different from "le renro be pa'o lo canko" which means
>> "the
>> thrower through a window", i.e. he throws something through a window).
>> "pe" is
>> in the same selma'o as "goi", which does something quite
>> un-preposition-like.
>>
>> > xu do cusku bau la .lojban. ? (=F4=D9 =C7=CF=D7=CF=D2=C9=DB=D8 =CE=C1 =
=EC=CF=D6=C2=C1=CE=C5 ?)
>> For "Do you speak Lojban?" I'd say "xu do se bangu la lojban". Is "=F4=
=D9
>> =C7=CF=D7=CF=D2=C9=DB=D8
>> =D0=CF-=CC=CF=D6=C2=C1=CE=D3=CB=C9" proper Russian?
>
> It is. ki'e. We need to find another example for {bau}.

{xu do cusku bau la .lojban.} does have a reasonable meaning: "Are you
speaking in lojban?" (Although I'd probably move the {xu} to follow
the {bau})
I think Russian is ambiguous as to whether that or "Do you speak
lojban?" is being asked.

>
>>
>> Btw, what about "=C2=D5=D2=D5=DB=C1=D3=CB=C9=CA =D1=DA=D9=CB"? (language
>> isolate spoken in Hunza) You may want to point out that "xu", like "=CC=
=C9",
>> can
>> follow the word being questioned.
>>
>> > ti me ma (=FC=D4=CF =DE=D4=CF ?)
>> > plise (=D1=C2=CC=CF=CB=CF)
>> That has to be either "ti me ma? -- lo plise" or "ti mo? -- plise". "=FE=
=D4=CF =CF=CE
>> =C4=C5=CC=C1=C5=D4" is "mo", not "me ma".
>
> Oh, indeed.
>
>>
>> Enough comments for now. Keep up the good work!
>>
>> Pierre
>> --
>> lo ponse be lo mruli po'o cu ga'ezga roda lo ka dinko
>
>
> ki'esai  doi .pier.
>
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