Received: from mail-yx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.213.189]:48578) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1SBMYJ-0005M3-8Y; Sat, 24 Mar 2012 01:42:27 -0700 Received: by yenm3 with SMTP id m3sf4858628yen.16 for ; Sat, 24 Mar 2012 01:42:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=6q1DDzQilTuZ9ygAHuJypQEtguEVEKJ/PguWeN2FfZ8=; b=TUFWiG7WVOqZirqk+pJvfzOzYQAnW+3rgZEaQ7Lta8qclRRteo/tHu8yCKkM6tZ3DV DnhrVWy4bEKXnAtNONNtd7bgF7qydIOn1KtZyGD8UG42VNYLXesxEbbOv4pOdTJbmN9z tfD4cQGJ3WkHF7vkDqYd2owJfpKleeOB7UHiQ= Received: by 10.52.19.43 with SMTP id b11mr1353785vde.4.1332578510287; Sat, 24 Mar 2012 01:41:50 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.218.147 with SMTP id hq19ls2166149vcb.4.gmail; Sat, 24 Mar 2012 01:41:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.19.43 with SMTP id b11mr1353782vde.4.1332578508838; Sat, 24 Mar 2012 01:41:48 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2012 01:41:48 -0700 (PDT) From: gleki To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Message-ID: <6839787.400.1332578508356.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynnk21> In-Reply-To: References: <26361784.259.1331827845548.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynjw14> <4F622920.3040601@plasmatix.com> Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Pivotal sentences in Pandunia. How to express them in Lojban ? MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: ls.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates internal as permitted sender) smtp.mail=gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_399_8421779.1332578508353" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / Content-Length: 9295 ------=_Part_399_8421779.1332578508353 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The problem with vo'i that it refers to a sumti with fixed position (No.3= =20 in this case) whereas Pandunia chain sentences can theoretically be very=20 long and (last sumti) marker would work much better. In Lojban it's {ri}=20 except when last sumti is {mi/do} or similar. On Friday, March 23, 2012 11:32:33 PM UTC+4, lincro wrote: > > Incidentally, you do know you don't have to change the order of the=20 > arguments of the main bridi from the default, right? You can use a vo'i= =20 > that hasn't been defined yet -- "mi cpedu lo nu vo'i rinsa ko'a kei do" (= I=20 > know that wasn't the point -- you were trying to mimic the structure of t= he=20 > original. Just pointing it out in case you didn't know) But to the main= =20 > question, you could leave the x1 out of the abstraction entirely. It=20 > doesn't necessarily default to the x1 of the outer bridi. It's still=20 > "zo'e" and in most cases, it would be more reasonable to assume I'm askin= g=20 > you do take an action then asking if I can greet him. > --gejyspa > > > On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 1:38 PM, selpa'i wrote: > >> mi cpedu fi do fe lo nu vo'i rinsa [ko'a]/zo'e >> The vo'i is easable inferrable from context though. (In this case,=20 >> repeating do would be shorter, too. But with longer sumti, it's a differ= ent=20 >> story) >> >> Am 15.03.2012 17:10, schrieb gleki:=20 >> >> Here is an example if a sentence in Pandunia=20 >> language. >> mi peti ti tshau ta. =3D I ask you to say hello to him.=20 >> parsing: [I ask you greet he/she/it] >> >> So the second "sumti" *ti *in *mi peti ti *becomes the first "sumti" of= =20 >> the next construction "ti tshau ta". >> >> I wonder whether it's possible to do so in Lojban. May {be} or {.i ri}= =20 >> can do the trick >> >> --=20 >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s=20 >> "Lojban Beginners" group. >> To view this discussion on the web visit=20 >> https://groups.google.com/d/=E2=80=8Bmsg/lojban-beginners/-/u__=E2=80=8B= MPlGXSw4J >> . >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.=E2= =80=8Bcom >> . >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to=20 >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@=E2=80=8Bgooglegroups.com >> . >> For more options, visit this group at=20 >> http://groups.google.com/=E2=80=8Bgroup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den >> . >> >> >> >> --=20 >> .i da xamgu ganse fi no na'ebo lo risna=20 >> .i lo vajrai cu nonselji'u lo kanla >> >> --=20 >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s=20 >> "Lojban Beginners" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.=E2= =80=8Bcom >> . >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to=20 >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@=E2=80=8Bgooglegroups.com >> . >> For more options, visit this group at=20 >> http://groups.google.com/=E2=80=8Bgroup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den >> . >> > > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lo= jban-beginners/-/k7LStQgUR_gJ. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den. ------=_Part_399_8421779.1332578508353 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The problem with vo'i that it refers to a sumti with fixed position (No.3 i= n this case) whereas Pandunia chain sentences can theoretically be very lon= g and (last sumti) marker would work much better. In Lojban it's {ri} excep= t when last sumti is {mi/do} or similar.

On Friday, March 23, 2012 1= 1:32:33 PM UTC+4, lincro wrote:
  Incidentally, you do know you don't have to change= the order of the arguments of the main bridi from the default, right? You = can use a vo'i that hasn't been defined yet -- "mi cpedu lo nu vo'i rinsa k= o'a kei do" (I know that wasn't the point -- you were trying to mimic the s= tructure of the original.  Just pointing it out in case you didn't kno= w)  But to the main question, you could leave the x1 out of the abstra= ction entirely.  It doesn't necessarily default to the x1 of the outer= bridi.  It's still "zo'e" and in most cases, it would be more reasona= ble to assume I'm asking you do take an action then asking if I can greet h= im.
         --gejyspa


On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 1:38 PM, selpa'i &l= t;m3o@plasmatix.com<= /a>> wrote:
=20 =20 =20
mi cpedu fi do fe lo nu vo'i rinsa [ko'a]/zo'e
The vo'i is easable inferrable from context though. (In this case, repeating do would be shorter, too. But with longer sumti, it's a different story)

Am 15.03.2012 17:10, schrieb gleki:
mi peti ti tshau ta. =3D I ask you to say hello to him. <= br>
parsing: [I ask you greet he/she/it]

So the second "sumti" ti in mi peti ti become= s the first "sumti" of the next construction "ti tshau ta".

I wonder whether it's possible to do so in Lojban. May {be} or {.i ri} can do the trick

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--=20
.i da xamgu ganse fi no na'ebo lo risna=20
.i lo vajrai cu nonselji'u lo kanla

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