Received: from mail-vb0-f61.google.com ([209.85.212.61]:33849)
	by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128)
	(Exim 4.76)
	(envelope-from <lojban-beginners+bncCMLaiI6rCBDY3cz7BBoEkyR_UA@googlegroups.com>)
	id 1SCur3-0000WI-L8; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 08:32:11 -0700
Received: by vbbfd1 with SMTP id fd1sf926665vbb.16
        for <multiple recipients>; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 08:32:02 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=beta;
        h=x-beenthere:date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject
         :mime-version:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results
         :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id
         :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe
         :list-unsubscribe:content-type;
        bh=f4Dewucb4UfqeaBBos4GVgyPwVEomQpiNNJTwOysQc8=;
        b=k677lK6tF8dZnbqJ7Hyxwollcq9o2ig92xFyAaCfILLSEnKWoHPbsWwFFocrBmNUVM
         x0vmfFLUC2JLuTWf6t+1NZFwIbgITg00le5bvhdMQX4e/Euv3a+E3ATelrjseJcIBDM1
         HxO6k54rZSe9bjJ85uq+0iF1KqF4XhIkbiVj4=
Received: by 10.236.182.4 with SMTP id n4mr5152341yhm.6.1332948696516;
        Wed, 28 Mar 2012 08:31:36 -0700 (PDT)
X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Received: by 10.220.157.66 with SMTP id a2ls103597vcx.8.gmail; Wed, 28 Mar
 2012 08:31:35 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.52.19.43 with SMTP id b11mr3150462vde.4.1332948695684;
        Wed, 28 Mar 2012 08:31:35 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 08:31:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: ianek <janek37@gmail.com>
To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Message-ID: <18866661.1100.1332948694954.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbmf37>
In-Reply-To: <CAG_T=w41FPJ6+zBAkJhXKMeiftCyWWL6LKWyKtGEBFMP8_f-CQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAG_T=w41FPJ6+zBAkJhXKMeiftCyWWL6LKWyKtGEBFMP8_f-CQ@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: One Ring inscription translation.
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Original-Sender: janek37@gmail.com
X-Original-Authentication-Results: ls.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of
 janek37@gmail.com designates internal as permitted sender)
 smtp.mail=janek37@gmail.com; dkim=pass
 header.i=@gmail.com
Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <lojban-beginners.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892
List-Post: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/post?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <http://groups.google.com/support/?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban-beginners+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en_US>
Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
List-Subscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/subscribe?hl=en_US>,
 <mailto:lojban-beginners+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/subscribe?hl=en_US>,
 <mailto:googlegroups-manage+300742228892+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; 
	boundary="----=_Part_1099_29639713.1332948694952"
X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/)
X-Spam_score: -0.7
X-Spam_score_int: -6
X-Spam_bar: /
Content-Length: 5596

------=_Part_1099_29639713.1332948694952
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I wouldn't say that {ri} rhymes with {xekri}, bacause {xekri} implies a=20
feminine rhyme and {facki ri}, {klami'e ri} both force a masculine rhyme.
And also, I doubt that {ri} may refer to more objects than the last sumti.=
=20
So {ro ri} in the first line would be "all of the one ring".
Yes, translating pronouns to Lojban is hard.

mu'o mi'e ianek

On Wednesday, March 28, 2012 4:08:25 PM UTC+2, fraik. wrote:
>
> Hi everyone! I'm rather the nintadni, and I was attempting to translate a=
=20
> few random snippets of text into lojban for practice. I was translating t=
he=20
> One Ring inscription, and this is what I came up with.
>
> (the One Ring inscription in Black Speech)
>
> Ash nazg durbatul=FBk,                  [ash]: one [nazg]: finger ring=20
> [durb-] constrain; force; dominate [-at] participle [ul] them [ul=FBk]=20
> completive form of 'them'
> ash nazg gimbatul,                     [gimb-]: seek out; discover
> ash nazg thrakatul=FBk                  [thrak-]: bring by force; drag; t=
o=20
> compel (something or someone) to go
> agh burzum-ishi krimpatul.           [agh]: and [burzum]: darkness [ishi]=
:=20
> in; inside [krimp-]: bind;  tie
>
> Translated:
> pa lo degja'i ku minde ro ri
> .i pa lo degja'i ku facki ri
> .i pa lo degja'i ku klami'e ri
> .i ri jongau ra ne'i lo xekri
>
> As I hope you're able to tell, I tried to keep the metre of the original.=
=20
> The main questions I had when translating:
> - {manku} doesn't rhyme with "ri", so I used {xekri}. Does {lo xekri} mea=
n=20
> "the blackness"? Is there a word with similar meaning to {manku} that I=
=20
> could use and still have the line rhyme?
> - I couldn't find a gismu for "retrive", in line 3. Would {bevri} have=20
> worked there? Or is it fine the way I did it?
>
> Any relevant advice or corrections would be much appreciated.
>

--=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
Lojban Beginners" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lo=
jban-beginners/-/yuFhsAHQMPcJ.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@=
googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban=
-beginners?hl=3Den.


------=_Part_1099_29639713.1332948694952
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I wouldn't say that {ri} rhymes with {xekri}, bacause {xekri} implies a fem=
inine rhyme and {facki ri}, {klami'e ri} both force a masculine rhyme.<div>=
And also, I doubt that {ri} may refer to more objects than the last sumti. =
So {ro ri} in the first line would be "all of the one ring".</div><div>Yes,=
 translating pronouns to Lojban is hard.</div><div><br></div><div>mu'o mi'e=
 ianek<br><br>On Wednesday, March 28, 2012 4:08:25 PM UTC+2, fraik. wrote:<=
blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;bord=
er-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">Hi everyone! I'm rather the nin=
tadni, and I was attempting to translate a few random snippets of text into=
 lojban for practice. I was translating the One Ring inscription, and this =
is what I came up with.<br><br>(the One Ring inscription in Black Speech)<b=
r>

<br>Ash nazg durbatul=FBk,&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; [ash]: one [nazg]: fi=
nger ring [durb-] constrain; force; dominate [-at] participle [ul] them [ul=
=FBk] completive form of 'them'<br>ash nazg gimbatul,&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; [gimb-]: seek out; discover<br>

ash nazg thrakatul=FBk&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; [thrak-]: bring by force;=
 drag; to compel (something or someone) to go<br>agh burzum-ishi krimpatul.=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; [agh]: and [burzum]=
: darkness [ishi]: in; inside [krimp-]: bind;&nbsp; tie<br>

<br>Translated:<br>pa lo degja'i ku minde ro ri<br>.i pa lo degja'i ku fack=
i ri<br>.i pa lo degja'i ku klami'e ri<br>.i ri jongau ra ne'i lo xekri<br>=
<br>As I hope you're able to tell, I tried to keep the metre of the origina=
l. The main questions I had when translating:<br>

- {manku} doesn't rhyme with "ri", so I used {xekri}. Does {lo xekri} mean =
"the blackness"? Is there a word with similar meaning to {manku} that I cou=
ld use and still have the line rhyme?<br>- I couldn't find a gismu for "ret=
rive", in line 3. Would {bevri} have worked there? Or is it fine the way I =
did it?<br>

<br>Any relevant advice or corrections would be much appreciated.<br>
</blockquote></div>

<p></p>

-- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
Lojban Beginners" group.<br />
To view this discussion on the web visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.c=
om/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/yuFhsAHQMPcJ">https://groups.google.com/d/msg/l=
ojban-beginners/-/yuFhsAHQMPcJ</a>.<br />=20
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.<br =
/>
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@=
googlegroups.com.<br />

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban=
-beginners?hl=3Den.<br />



------=_Part_1099_29639713.1332948694952--