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Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 07:41:26 -0600
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Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] 'tesete' and cmavo cluster rules
From: Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com>
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It's not /a/ word, it's three.

se switched the x1 and the x2, te switches the x1 and the xe

so, perform each switch in sequence:

ko'a cpedu ko'e ko'i

ko'i te cpedu ko'e ko'a

ko'e tese cpedu ko'i ko'a

ko'a tesete cpedu ko'i ko'e

Honestly, that seems like a lot of work just to avoid a kei.

Without using SE to swap places, the same bridi would be:

{.i mi ba cpedu lenu klama gi'e cpacu le selponse be cy. kei lo prenu}
"I will request 'coming and getting his things' from someone."
(^ Is a bit of a mash-up between literal and colloquial, because the word
order isn't normal for English, making it read funny.)

As far as I know, the only rule about cmavo clustering is that you can't do
it if the combination takes the form of a gismu, lujvo, fu'ivla, or other
predicate-word (brivla), but otherwise it's personal choice whether or not
to cluster them. Some clusters are fairly common, and all clusters where
the second word modifies the first, such as in .uicai or .iepei,, are
standard practice.

As far as omitting denpabu, when in text there is any combination of ' '
and '.', it is permissible to omit all of '.' and ' ' except one, such as
{la.djan. .uisai xruti .i mi mutce gleki} could be written as {la djan
uisai i mi mutce gleki}, {la.djan.uisai xruti.i mi mutce gleki}, etc. I
typically only omit either when there is a semantic(?) link between them,
and I always favor '.' over ' ', so my rendering would be {la.djan.uisai
xruti .i mi mutce gleki}. My reason for choosing to omit ' ' and not '.' is
because when speaking, those pauses /must/ /still/ /be/ /"said"/, and
keeping the '.' in the written serves as a reminder of when you /must/
pause.

On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 6:55 AM, =C1lvaro Vallejo <avallejor@gmail.com> wrot=
e:

> Hi,
>
> *Three questions:*
> *1)* I found another word that I am not able to make a sense: "tesete".
> Here the context:
> .i mi ba *tesete* cpedu lo prenu lenu klama gi'e cpacu le selponse be cy.
> li'u
>
> which is translated as:
> "I'll get someone to come by for his things."
>
> Could someone explain this term?
> *
> 2)* I've not been able to find the rules that governs *a)* clustering
> cmavo, e.g. .ibabo, .iku'i, leza'i, etc... *b)* omitting the initial
> period (e.g. i, ibabo, iku'i). Are these rules written somewhere or do th=
ey
> come from usage (I don't think so).
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Lojban Beginners" group.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
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>



--=20
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

--=20
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It&#39;s not /a/ word, it&#39;s three.<br><br>se switched the x1 and the x2=
, te switches the x1 and the xe<br><br>so, perform each switch in sequence:=
<br><br>ko&#39;a cpedu ko&#39;e ko&#39;i<br><br>ko&#39;i te cpedu ko&#39;e =
ko&#39;a<br>
<br>ko&#39;e tese cpedu ko&#39;i ko&#39;a<br><br>ko&#39;a tesete cpedu ko&#=
39;i ko&#39;e<br><br>Honestly, that seems like a lot of work just to avoid =
a kei.<br><br>Without using SE to swap places, the same bridi would be:<br>
<br>{.i mi ba cpedu lenu klama gi&#39;e cpacu le selponse be cy. kei lo pre=
nu}<br>&quot;I will request &#39;coming and getting his things&#39; from so=
meone.&quot;<br>(^ Is a bit of a mash-up between literal and colloquial, be=
cause the word order isn&#39;t normal for English, making it read funny.)<b=
r>
<br>As far as I know, the only rule about cmavo clustering is that you can&=
#39;t do it if the combination takes the form of a gismu, lujvo, fu&#39;ivl=
a, or other predicate-word (brivla), but otherwise it&#39;s personal choice=
 whether or not to cluster them. Some clusters are fairly common, and all c=
lusters where the second word modifies the first, such as in .uicai or .iep=
ei,, are standard practice.<br>
<br>As far as omitting denpabu, when in text there is any combination of &#=
39; &#39; and &#39;.&#39;, it is permissible to omit all of &#39;.&#39; and=
 &#39; &#39; except one, such as {la.djan. .uisai xruti .i mi mutce gleki} =
could be written as {la djan uisai i mi mutce gleki}, {la.djan.uisai xruti.=
i mi mutce gleki}, etc. I typically only omit either when there is a semant=
ic(?) link between them, and I always favor &#39;.&#39; over &#39; &#39;, s=
o my rendering would be {la.djan.uisai xruti .i mi mutce gleki}. My reason =
for choosing to omit &#39; &#39; and not &#39;.&#39; is because when speaki=
ng, those pauses /must/ /still/ /be/ /&quot;said&quot;/, and keeping the &#=
39;.&#39; in the written serves as a reminder of when you /must/ pause.<br>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 6:55 AM, =C1lvaro Val=
lejo <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:avallejor@gmail.com" target=3D=
"_blank">avallejor@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"=
gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-=
left:1ex">
Hi,<br><br><b>Three questions:</b><br><b>1)</b> I found another word that I=
 am not able to make a sense: &quot;tesete&quot;. Here the context:<br>.i m=
i ba <b>tesete</b> cpedu lo prenu lenu klama gi&#39;e cpacu le selponse be =
cy. li&#39;u<br>
<br>which is translated as:<br>&quot;I&#39;ll get someone to come by for hi=
s things.&quot;<br><br>Could someone explain this term?<br><b><br>2)</b> I&=
#39;ve not been able to find the rules that governs <b>a)</b> clustering cm=
avo, e.g. .ibabo, .iku&#39;i, leza&#39;i, etc... <b>b)</b> omitting the ini=
tial period (e.g. i, ibabo, iku&#39;i). Are these rules written somewhere o=
r do they come from usage (I don&#39;t think so).<br>
<br>Thanks in advance.<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br>

<p></p>

-- <br>
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For more options, visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/g=
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roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den</a>.<br>


</font></span></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>mu&#39;o =
mi&#39;e .aionys.<br><br>.i.e&#39;ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi=
.luk. mi patfu do zo&#39;o<br>(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father=
. :D )<br>
<br>

<p></p>

-- <br />
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Lojban Beginners" group.<br />
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.<br =
/>
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-beginners?hl=3Den.<br />



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