Received: from mail-lb0-f189.google.com ([209.85.217.189]:39924) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1SSQ1c-0004OW-Ii; Thu, 10 May 2012 02:51:13 -0700 Received: by lbol5 with SMTP id l5sf867389lbo.16 for ; Thu, 10 May 2012 02:51:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=gQOgDxkPIhQTNRXKkGLIlLYjH2dskrLEx/9kQRncyA0=; b=M07NKeQBRAOkkVLZ6yvg0USv2WWlykDEgB7VOS7j2X0ijcuSEgqViUnIaR/hvzYz35 L6uirw3BF6thcATwYhEfYXjBFtzsMzk7rCIhUL3mY5VXkcbCwWYQYWpLdvb72V1Yo2Up M4xDSgj8nxYjTUQ/wxEAfIBIoS5BXP3Vh9pV0= Received: by 10.204.154.19 with SMTP id m19mr145961bkw.7.1336643460209; Thu, 10 May 2012 02:51:00 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.130.145 with SMTP id t17ls4744634bks.8.gmail; Thu, 10 May 2012 02:50:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.157.134 with SMTP id b6mr468610bkx.5.1336643458495; Thu, 10 May 2012 02:50:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.157.134 with SMTP id b6mr468609bkx.5.1336643458465; Thu, 10 May 2012 02:50:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lb0-f176.google.com (mail-lb0-f176.google.com [209.85.217.176]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ig3si6481779bkc.3.2012.05.10.02.50.58 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 10 May 2012 02:50:58 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lytlesw@gmail.com designates 209.85.217.176 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.217.176; Received: by lboj14 with SMTP id j14so1272861lbo.35 for ; Thu, 10 May 2012 02:50:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.112.38.70 with SMTP id e6mr1585136lbk.6.1336643457980; Thu, 10 May 2012 02:50:57 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.112.48.99 with HTTP; Thu, 10 May 2012 02:50:37 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <201205080025.44688.phma@phma.optus.nu> <12872840.1048.1336566301897.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynjb15> From: MorphemeAddict Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 05:50:37 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Reuse request To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lytlesw@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lytlesw@gmail.com designates 209.85.217.176 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lytlesw@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e0cb4efe2b82811a3504bfab8e8d X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / Content-Length: 11235 --e0cb4efe2b82811a3504bfab8e8d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On the one hand, I agree with you. So what? If it's almost Lojban, who's to say the differences are not just a mistake, handled through context and further explanation. On the other hand, Lojban may be prescribed, but it's not proscribed (i.e., denounced, forbidden, condemned, prohibited). stevo On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 1:57 AM, Jonathan Jones wrote: > On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 11:45 PM, MorphemeAddict wrote: > >> On the other hand, nobody can stop you from using the form of Lojban you >> want. It may not be understood readily if you do. >> You take the risk, you accept the consequences. >> (Sadly, the beginners list is not the place for this sort of comment, but >> there it is.) >> >> stevo >> > > I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to disagree with you there. Lojban is a > proscribed language, so there's /only/ one form. If you're not using that > form, you're not using Lojban. > > >> On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 10:29 AM, Jonathan Jones wrote: >> >>> On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 6:25 AM, ianek wrote: >>> >>>> So let's change it! I mean, we should gather complaints like that and >>>> make new versions of Lojban from time to time (once a couple of years?). >>>> >>>> If there are annoying things in Lojban and we know how to fix them, >>>> then we should stop complaining and do something! It's our language, >>>> there's nobody to stop us! >>>> >>>> I have similar thoughts about jbovlaste, but I'll better start another >>>> thread for that. >>>> >>>> mu'o mi'e ianek >>>> >>> >>> Well, as far as gismu are concerned, we're not currently allowed to make >>> any changes. By the statutes of our community, the "baseline" of the >>> language is not allowed to change until the entirety has been documented. >>> This only means gismu and cmavo, btw. We're allowed to make and edit as >>> many lujvo, fu'ivla, and cmevla as we want. >>> >>> In other words, when the goal as stated on this pagehas been met, then we can start actually making improvements to the base >>> language, such as regulating the place structures to remove exceptions. >>> Until then, however, when it comes to the baseline, all we can do is talk, >>> moan, discuss, and complain. >>> >>> -- >>> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >>> >>> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Lojban Beginners" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >> > > > > -- > mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --e0cb4efe2b82811a3504bfab8e8d Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On the one hand, I agree with you. So what? If it's almost Lojban, who&= #39;s to say the differences are not just a mistake, handled through contex= t and further explanation.=A0
On the other hand, Lojban may be prescrib= ed, but it's not proscribed (i.e., denounced, forbidden, condemned, pro= hibited).=A0

stevo=A0

On Thu, May = 10, 2012 at 1:57 AM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrot= e:
On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 11:45 PM, MorphemeAddict <lytlesw@gmail.com>= ; wrote:
On the other hand, nobody can stop you from using the form of Lojban you wa= nt. It may not be understood readily if you do.=A0
You take the risk, y= ou accept the consequences.=A0
(Sadly, the beginners list is not = the place for this sort of comment, but there it is.)

stevo

I'm sorr= y, but I'm going to have to disagree with you there. Lojban is a proscr= ibed language, so there's /only/ one form. If you're not using that= form, you're not using Lojban.
=A0
On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 10:= 29 AM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 6:25 AM, ianek <jan= ek37@gmail.com> wrote:
So let's change it! I mean, we should gather complaints= like that and make new versions of Lojban from time to time (once a couple= of years?).

If there are annoying things in Lojba= n and we know how to fix them, then we should stop complaining and do somet= hing! It's our language, there's nobody to stop us!

I have similar thoughts about jbovlaste, but I'll b= etter start another thread for that.

mu'o mi&#= 39;e ianek

Well, as far as gismu are conce= rned, we're not currently allowed to make any changes. By the statutes = of our community, the "baseline" of the language is not allowed t= o change until the entirety has been documented. This only means gismu and = cmavo, btw. We're allowed to make and edit as many lujvo, fu'ivla, = and cmevla as we want.

In other words, when the goal as stated on=A0this page has been m= et, then we can start actually making improvements to the base language, su= ch as regulating the place structures to remove exceptions. Until then, how= ever, when it comes to the baseline, all we can do is talk, moan, discuss, = and complain.

--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai= ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to= the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

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To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+un= subscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/g= roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.

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To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
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For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/g= roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.



--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

= .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'= o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+un= subscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/g= roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.

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For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.
--e0cb4efe2b82811a3504bfab8e8d--