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Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 12:17:04 +0200
From: Miles Forster <m3o@plasmatix.com>
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Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: 'tesete' and cmavo cluster rules
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Again, you did not read properly. I never said <u> is never a vowel. It=20
is just not a vowel when another vowel follows, as in {ui}.

Am 10.05.2012 12:13, schrieb Michael Eaton:
> Vowels are such by convention, not pronunciation: to say that a letter=20
> is a vowel because it is a 'vowel sound' causes all sorts of=20
> exponentially and rapidly increasing problems. Is that to say U can't=20
> possibly be a vowel in English either, because it's pronounced as W in=20
> words such as 'quick'?
>
>     -----Original Message-----
>     *From:* lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
>     [mailto:lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com]*On Behalf Of *Miles Forste=
r
>     *Sent:* 10 May 2012 11:04
>     *To:* lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
>     *Subject:* Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: 'tesete' and cmavo cluster rule=
s
>
>     .y bu is not "u". .u bu is. And the u in ui is not pronounced [u]
>     but [w] which *is* a consonant. Some here seem to lack reading
>     comprehension. It's annoying to argue with people who won't listen
>     to what the other person is saying.
>     Whether or not something is a vowel depends on the way it's
>     pronounced, not the way it's written.
>
>     mu'o
>
>     Am 10.05.2012 02:12, schrieb Michael Turniansky:
>>       It is, and it always does require a pause in front of it.
>>      Miles is wrong.
>>             --gejyspa
>>
>>
>>     On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 8:10 PM, =C1lvaro Vallejo
>>     <avallejor@gmail.com <mailto:avallejor@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>         .uesai
>>
>>
>>         - "The initial period can never be omitted before vowels (if
>>         they are /phonetically/ vowels. {ui} =3D [wi], so no dot is
>>         necessary). "
>>         - "ui does not begin in a vowel. Therefore, no denpa bu is
>>         needed."
>>
>>         Well... I am really shocked! How is it that "u" is not a
>>         vowel? It IS a vowel or I should start learning again Lojban
>>         from zero: it's name is indeed ybu, isn't it?
>>         (Chapter 1 of Lojban for beginners, Chapter 2 of CLL)...
>>
>>         --=20
>>         You received this message because you are subscribed to the
>>         Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.
>>         To view this discussion on the web visit
>>         https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/AINBgk5ryt8J.
>>
>>         To post to this group, send email to
>>         lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
>>         <mailto:lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com>.
>>         To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>         lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>>         <mailto:lojban-beginners%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com>.
>>         For more options, visit this group at
>>         http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.
>>
>>
>>     --=20
>>     You received this message because you are subscribed to the
>>     Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.
>>     To post to this group, send email to
>>     lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
>>     To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>     lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>>     For more options, visit this group at
>>     http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.
>
>
>     --=20
>     .i da xamgu ganse fi no na'ebo lo risna
>     .i lo vajrai cu nonselji'u lo kanla
>
>
>
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>
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--=20
.i da xamgu ganse fi no na'ebo lo risna
.i lo vajrai cu nonselji'u lo kanla

--=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
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    Again, you did not read properly. I never said &lt;u&gt; is never a
    vowel. It is just not a vowel when another vowel follows, as in
    {ui}.<br>
    <br>
    Am 10.05.2012 12:13, schrieb Michael Eaton:
    <blockquote
cite="mid:9DE5DB0988ED6C448E606734F5030D383399865E@bbcmbmx01.blackpool.gov.uk"
      type="cite">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
        charset=ISO-8859-1">
      <meta name="GENERATOR" content="MSHTML 8.00.6001.19222">
      <div><span class="994130910-10052012"><font color="#800080"
            face="Lucida Sans">Vowels are such by convention, not
            pronunciation: to say that a letter is a vowel because it&nbsp;is
            a 'vowel sound' causes all sorts of exponentially and
            rapidly increasing problems. Is that to say U can't possibly
            be a vowel in English either, because it's pronounced as W
            in words such as 'quick'?</font></span></div>
      <div><span class="994130910-10052012"></span>&nbsp;</div>
      <blockquote>
        <div dir="ltr" class="OutlookMessageHeader" align="left"><font
            face="Tahoma" size="2">-----Original Message-----<br>
            <b>From:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com">lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com</a>
            [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com">mailto:lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com</a>]<b>On Behalf Of </b>Miles
            Forster<br>
            <b>Sent:</b> 10 May 2012 11:04<br>
            <b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com">lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com</a><br>
            <b>Subject:</b> Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: 'tesete' and
            cmavo cluster rules<br>
            <br>
          </font></div>
        .y bu is not "u". .u bu is. And the u in ui is not pronounced
        [u] but [w] which *is* a consonant. Some here seem to lack
        reading comprehension. It's annoying to argue with people who
        won't listen to what the other person is saying.<br>
        Whether or not something is a vowel depends on the way it's
        pronounced, not the way it's written.<br>
        <br>
        mu'o<br>
        <br>
        Am 10.05.2012 02:12, schrieb Michael Turniansky:
        <blockquote
cite="mid:CAKOEKkRvC+aWyYx=KjcPJOtGrqVLC4pRuTN-AcOKWVRKZ7tEiQ@mail.gmail.com"
          type="cite">
          <div dir="ltr">&nbsp; It is, and it always does require a pause in
            front of it. &nbsp;Miles is wrong.
            <div>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; --gejyspa</div>
            <div><br>
              <br>
              <div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 8:10 PM,
                &Aacute;lvaro Vallejo <defanghtml_span dir="ltr">&lt;<a
                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:avallejor@gmail.com" target="_blank"
                    defanghtml_moz-do-not-send="true">avallejor@gmail.com</a>&gt;</defanghtml_span>
                wrote:<br>
                <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                  defanghtml_style="margin:0 0 0
 .8ex;border-left:1px
                  #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">.uesai
                  <div class="im"><br>
                    <br>
                    - "The initial period can never be omitted before
                    vowels (if they are <i>phonetically</i> vowels.
                    {ui} = [wi], so no dot is necessary). "<br>
                  </div>
                  <div class="im">- "ui does not begin in a vowel.
                    Therefore, no denpa bu is needed."<br>
                    <br>
                  </div>
                  Well... I am really shocked! How is it that "u" is not
                  a vowel? It IS a vowel or I should start learning
                  again Lojban from zero: it's name is indeed ybu, isn't
                  it?<br>
                  (Chapter 1 of Lojban for beginners, Chapter 2 of
                  CLL)...
                  <div class="im"><br>
                    -- <br>
                    You received this message because you are subscribed
                    to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.<br>
                  </div>
                  To view this discussion on the web visit <a
                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/AINBgk5ryt8J"
                    target="_blank" defanghtml_moz-do-not-send="true">https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/AINBgk5ryt8J</a>.
                  <div class="HOEnZb">
                    <div class="h5"><br>
                      To post to this group, send email to <a
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com"
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                </blockquote>
              </div>
              <br>
            </div>
          </div>
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        </blockquote>
        <br>
        <br>
        <pre class="moz-signature" defanghtml_cols="72">-- 
.i da xamgu ganse fi no na'ebo lo risna 
.i lo vajrai cu nonselji'u lo kanla</pre>
        <br>
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    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
.i da xamgu ganse fi no na'ebo lo risna 
.i lo vajrai cu nonselji'u lo kanla</pre>
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