Received: from mail-wg0-f61.google.com ([74.125.82.61]:48577)
	by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128)
	(Exim 4.76)
	(envelope-from <lojban-beginners+bncCMHEmaCOBhCgqLn9BBoEHDrZQw@googlegroups.com>)
	id 1STBDU-0005Mv-7Z; Sat, 12 May 2012 05:14:36 -0700
Received: by wgbdt10 with SMTP id dt10sf2159854wgb.16
        for <multiple recipients>; Sat, 12 May 2012 05:14:24 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=beta;
        h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date
         :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender
         :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list
         :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender
         :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type;
        bh=j9hrs+2fufd5Tw4wQYQ4iAoiI3r+hliGKPvLv8GlFC8=;
        b=r/fQgGoXMcQGYPPoS5gXwgwZ1iNGZiPVCngJsIDPQd8iIxHqI3V+rfLoBmBCl8jBAo
         yAw49WT+/pINDExbCXiFBKOCnW9UZm3dgPkg46CFpTkdTBDMKHRNmheJ7raOBSzduM8k
         QO3rteCYaBm1arc0VoSZC8TAd5eW3koPGk618=
Received: by 10.205.122.134 with SMTP id gg6mr29540bkc.8.1336824864171;
        Sat, 12 May 2012 05:14:24 -0700 (PDT)
X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Received: by 10.204.130.145 with SMTP id t17ls6397661bks.8.gmail; Sat, 12 May
 2012 05:14:23 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.205.122.65 with SMTP id gf1mr168309bkc.2.1336824862964;
        Sat, 12 May 2012 05:14:22 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.205.122.65 with SMTP id gf1mr168308bkc.2.1336824862945;
        Sat, 12 May 2012 05:14:22 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-lpp01m010-f48.google.com (mail-lpp01m010-f48.google.com [209.85.215.48])
        by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ig3si14720007bkc.3.2012.05.12.05.14.22
        (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER);
        Sat, 12 May 2012 05:14:22 -0700 (PDT)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.48 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.215.48;
Received: by lagz14 with SMTP id z14so3468095lag.21
        for <lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com>; Sat, 12 May 2012 05:14:22 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.152.112.100 with SMTP id ip4mr1611584lab.1.1336824862484; Sat,
 12 May 2012 05:14:22 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.152.22.68 with HTTP; Sat, 12 May 2012 05:14:22 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <CALMa68oEu=kUfHBsty179Dnu-cwui=wP9xZ8u2GS=bXKU-SzPA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMKwHj2prU_2fn6qeh-tioG3W=y+7hpMjPXAOSTEvkSse5gp6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMKwHj1=oL7AE9Kq-cY0zk1zDdwzYtDCbDVKo8zaVbqvt7nzRA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAHiXx=PsR8HCUKvp+LVwgAJJ_QJ=ca8yt+MQrswkBRwJoGFtAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<201205080025.44688.phma@phma.optus.nu>
	<CAMKwHj3Q14xUULjZvbe3Pqa7Vvv6d6jOft16S_N_rNP00dpg7g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMKwHj2w7XQnr0RjmXBWtX0S4NBP5VTmQ39Wd90WEFEiMiHN=w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO7tK2fSdtxOkEkajA2TK5qEdA=pz3-THjCLcrn8t2KrWNt9AQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMKwHj0BjF1nZ1Hp+43ef3V+n4KT9ErpE-Q6=cRF66Ft=vPj1A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO7tK2eeiLsOmg0ow9XTw65Ja=y4D7YMHk2DZSH7igN2scqHkQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMKwHj3Sm_209N95SOxUyJ_5SvES7JX+znZmA4bmbBfKj2QdGQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO7tK2fQ=w6C8S_5jwUZPvnmMo7DpTAcgb76QwC4k4-3gFTMdw@mail.gmail.com>
	<12872840.1048.1336566301897.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynjb15>
	<3f2be27f-7c0e-459f-9b8a-f0a3b401cfb1@l15g2000vbv.googlegroups.com>
	<CAMKwHj1+585aqNs0b2bcLd6gO6hArkS5efKdoi5Vppba1aAJGw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKOEKkRkxV3-wLnWndNRFH2y3zGn8yLKUgxNsp3=Nu54G5HkQg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMKwHj3bbcptyHVQAmDtS9qi94aK7rRnjtM9X_8uHSTOEN0DBw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKOEKkTS9PinuhG2CqFggqiBR4fT6z3MYGobaYafQ=sdyhukvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMKwHj3Zhgu=sd6ZVh09L2Jx2Ja4U88mVmP=vf2WH7rLY8uuMg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMKwHj2T169odQiS6cGxMksraczhXLnOiHsCE0Mp9NB5dFmxOQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMKwHj1eV2wYJOpnx3zZceuc2BSpbdzNNSJvw4a+zB5L71JQ6Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMKwHj3nut8+w44N4FiaL8=TuOQxi+kTL+BeKGsnppAWtd_XHg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO7tK2cNtSyrHEZySGxHY8DvX+FzmsY5UOqjU9=T4p=SZKLkEg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMKwHj3JPhfpqNsCWxjH2-SiiWmZNq94MkwXFs5rAneLKHg6UA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO7tK2e_9=aRFANQc_55v6qbKFawfwTZFJ0awoodezaRE5T7+Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMKwHj2ohmg1tuo=azStK38twVw0_FAarF_DS=j0Bo=pw8SF8w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO7tK2dxZzVQ6QWs71+XgK+quE16SaQ9i4DaiJqXX+2WAO5JNw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMKwHj3ZSnfm7tRCHdt7tsndarJ-89+QpdOFXBZqwdZPC66VkQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMKwHj2F7jz15+K_bQcUBLMrGJB5ec9OeT_NzXE=Ypq9q-yg2g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO7tK2e-81nn1-UZ3N_F9oUjhC6UY-1Hw-+cB-TtMnC671SYFg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMKwHj111GSCQdsWF8fm6KBRNUZLW5RrnsbhfFvJ-ynqcp6sow@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO7tK2cZnuwrzju33Hy_yunOvVQtT2eeExT7cDjXsHzM9A6moA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMKwHj29r2i9PHMPaMY=Ru0mEmbQBDvczT27OjMbatnnBPzJVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO7tK2ebqUfM37Q3ESn4huJaZZXQ_kPPrWR2p08fYe_Ht6QkKw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMKwHj1LtS20OrUNNwjZ6YAEnZBO9ugdgk3BPYw8XhsaqhC=1g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO7tK2c+LFg879NTe+XLEvupST88Fw76eJBbgzK9w8xZh9ZcFw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMKwHj2NumU2FWAWq2J9wjn1yPzmajTyU98hMhCd5a0KwqPL2w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO7tK2ez9L=5XpqWp07YCB+63YYOHYMDppgfcSoVJ7tcUmx=QQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMKwHj3CxSZddwbG=n=WRERy+79Y8YRTk6jT8hqnMhAzrJy7rw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO7tK2eX6XkDahTJAJDDF8PskdOMKmga-64EK4Mu0+z9PxLRpA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMKwHj2iZGz=xO2XVDHp-NK=ijBZ=5Z4HBGzHR2BDLd57BmbEA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO7tK2cPF1UwAE-mdsLRVWFqk7dFsJ+0Bjy44=tDyXMqVFwiAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALMa68oEu=kUfHBsty179Dnu-cwui=wP9xZ8u2GS=bXKU-SzPA@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 06:14:22 -0600
Message-ID: <CAMKwHj0EzbycbMs1P-w7i6rD=AQw92vWtX47Kxz+ujdLXNbm1w@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: Reuse request
From: Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com>
To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com
X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com:
 domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.215.48 as permitted sender)
 smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com
Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <lojban-beginners.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892
List-Post: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/post?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <http://groups.google.com/support/?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban-beginners+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en_US>
Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
List-Subscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/subscribe?hl=en_US>,
 <mailto:lojban-beginners+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/subscribe?hl=en_US>,
 <mailto:googlegroups-manage+300742228892+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d040838fd0e293404bfd5cb0a
X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/)
X-Spam_score: -0.7
X-Spam_score_int: -6
X-Spam_bar: /
Content-Length: 4172

--f46d040838fd0e293404bfd5cb0a
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 5:36 AM, Felipe Gon=E7alves Assis <
felipeg.assis@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 11 May 2012 08:46, Jorge Llamb=EDas <jjllambias@gmail.com> wrote:
> > BTW, I'm not sure it has ever been defined whether "lu'i ko'a .e ko'e"
> > is the set whose elements are ko'a and ko'e and nothing else, or any
> > set containing ko'a and ko'e.
> >
>
> Whatever the interpretation, xorxes, how would you go expanding
> {lu'i ko'a .e ko'e broda} to a bridi connective?
>
> I expected it to be {ge lu'i ko'a broda gi lu'i ko'e broda},
> which actually involves two possibly different sets.
>
> Is it that LAhE is an exception, or it should be expanded to something
> else first?
>
> mu'o
> mi'e .asiz.
>

I'm no authority on this, but I'm pretty sure you can't pull "ko'a .e ko'e"
out of the lu'i construct, as the job of "lu'i" is to convert it's
argument[s] into a new thing, which is the set containing the argument[s].

"lu'i ko'a" is a subset of "lu'i ko'a .e ko'e". It's not a two-way street,
in the same way that all circles are ellipses, but not all ellipses are
circles.

--=20
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

--=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@=
googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban=
-beginners?hl=3Den.


--f46d040838fd0e293404bfd5cb0a
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 5:36 AM, Felipe Gon=E7al=
ves Assis <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:felipeg.assis@gmail.com" =
target=3D"_blank">felipeg.assis@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockqu=
ote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc s=
olid;padding-left:1ex">
<div class=3D"im">On 11 May 2012 08:46, Jorge Llamb=EDas &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:jjllambias@gmail.com">jjllambias@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; BTW, I&#39;m not sure it has ever been defined whether &quot;lu&#39;i =
ko&#39;a .e ko&#39;e&quot;<br>
&gt; is the set whose elements are ko&#39;a and ko&#39;e and nothing else, =
or any<br>
&gt; set containing ko&#39;a and ko&#39;e.<br>
&gt;<br>
<br>
</div>Whatever the interpretation, xorxes, how would you go expanding<br>
{lu&#39;i ko&#39;a .e ko&#39;e broda} to a bridi connective?<br>
<br>
I expected it to be {ge lu&#39;i ko&#39;a broda gi lu&#39;i ko&#39;e broda}=
,<br>
which actually involves two possibly different sets.<br>
<br>
Is it that LAhE is an exception, or it should be expanded to something<br>
else first?<br>
<br>
mu&#39;o<br>
mi&#39;e .asiz.<br></blockquote><div>=A0</div></div>I&#39;m no authority on=
 this, but I&#39;m pretty sure you can&#39;t pull &quot;ko&#39;a .e ko&#39;=
e&quot; out of the lu&#39;i construct, as the job of &quot;lu&#39;i&quot; i=
s to convert it&#39;s argument[s] into a new thing, which is the set contai=
ning the argument[s].<br>
<br>&quot;lu&#39;i ko&#39;a&quot; is a subset of &quot;lu&#39;i ko&#39;a .e=
 ko&#39;e&quot;. It&#39;s not a two-way street, in the same way that all ci=
rcles are ellipses, but not all ellipses are circles.<br clear=3D"all"><br>
-- <br>mu&#39;o mi&#39;e .aionys.<br><br>.i.e&#39;ucai ko cmima lo pilno be=
 denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo&#39;o<br>(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, =
I am your father. :D )<br><br>

<p></p>

-- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
Lojban Beginners" group.<br />
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.<br =
/>
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@=
googlegroups.com.<br />

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban=
-beginners?hl=3Den.<br />



--f46d040838fd0e293404bfd5cb0a--