Received: from mail-gg0-f189.google.com ([209.85.161.189]:33722) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1SbXDk-0001Xo-TW; Mon, 04 Jun 2012 06:21:27 -0700 Received: by ggke5 with SMTP id e5sf4130591ggk.16 for ; Mon, 04 Jun 2012 06:21:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:mime-version:date:user-agent:x-http-via :x-http-useragent:message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=PoMWNqfxYd83ciu/REFmbWrIvD+gll3d8F9WXOCTUZU=; b=yhVyrFcNdwZ5BhZMrQw96CxvH/ygJDCcXB+RGRrATgUMuXYncIOaucr407IcIVZQt6 wkHULXCnQiNOrtcwGDDB6MhEI3nTyxl21Hlvu2fmy2bb5/i2kK6RyAwDvXYO7k1vKAJe u/4ynCv/y+e+zgLtgXNnlq+gGzSofDtlKeAIQ= Received: by 10.52.68.134 with SMTP id w6mr560944vdt.6.1338816074470; Mon, 04 Jun 2012 06:21:14 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.119.137 with SMTP id z9ls2593814vcq.2.gmail; Mon, 04 Jun 2012 06:21:13 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.28.8 with SMTP id x8mr565054vdg.0.1338816073341; Mon, 04 Jun 2012 06:21:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by q2g2000vbv.googlegroups.com with HTTP; Mon, 4 Jun 2012 06:21:13 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 06:21:13 -0700 (PDT) User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-HTTP-Via: 1.1 alta.it.cx (squid/3.1.11) X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:11.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/11.0,gzip(gfe) Message-ID: Subject: [lojban-beginners] xu kau From: tengo To: Lojban Beginners X-Original-Sender: yurock.tengo@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: ls.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of yurock.tengo@gmail.com designates internal as permitted sender) smtp.mail=yurock.tengo@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / Content-Length: 1391 coi I have read about {xu} and {kau}, and I find most usage of {xu kau} odd. As I understand {xu}, it puts the main bridi into question, not a sub-bridi. Consider the following example: do djuno lo du'u la .frank. cu bebna You know that Frank is foolish First I add {xu}: do djuno lo du'u xu la .frank. cu bebna Is it true that you know that Frank is foolish? Do you know that Frank is foolish? So, it's now a question. Then I add {kau}: do djuno lo du'u xu kau la .frank. cu bebna Whether you know that Frank is foolish. Which is what seems odd to me. The CLL has an example in chapter 11: 7.3) mi djuno le jei la frank. cu bebna [kei] I know the truth-value of Frank being a fool. And later in the text: "I know whether or not Frank is a fool", which seems to be the intended meaning of {mi djuno lo du'u xu kau la .frank. cu bebna}. So, is there a special rule for interpretation of {xu kau}? If yes, where is it defined? Is the {jei}-version still correct with current definitions of {jei} and {djuno}? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.