Received: from mail-ey0-f189.google.com ([209.85.215.189]:54674) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1SbyMv-00064g-Q5; Tue, 05 Jun 2012 11:20:39 -0700 Received: by eaad14 with SMTP id d14sf3256172eaa.16 for ; Tue, 05 Jun 2012 11:20:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=jnOW8P80gVXGGjFcMeXxFl2egQxYq9THafKYEVTKXt8=; b=MJVvWi9rpBalnZG4WznY2Lh94+L9K/lABtiMONCuqHT6Pchn2l8Oefd3/b1yQNUbnT 1RlRdkjdZdpmnJJK6P9T2T+MtK6/f67p8oqI9sjsY9gKp7tMU+8EmehNK0OmT3U0RZqS 7VO0tF4N96VHUPtaQOD80opseMlSuHU00Eaqw= Received: by 10.204.152.18 with SMTP id e18mr676654bkw.16.1338920429843; Tue, 05 Jun 2012 11:20:29 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.130.88 with SMTP id r24ls5719782bks.4.gmail; Tue, 05 Jun 2012 11:20:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.141.4 with SMTP id k4mr3250804bku.6.1338920428499; Tue, 05 Jun 2012 11:20:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.141.4 with SMTP id k4mr3250803bku.6.1338920428476; Tue, 05 Jun 2012 11:20:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lb0-f180.google.com (mail-lb0-f180.google.com [209.85.217.180]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id iv15si2040036bkc.0.2012.06.05.11.20.28 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 05 Jun 2012 11:20:28 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.217.180 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.217.180; Received: by lbbgh12 with SMTP id gh12so3653835lbb.25 for ; Tue, 05 Jun 2012 11:20:28 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.112.86.166 with SMTP id q6mr8441905lbz.6.1338920427981; Tue, 05 Jun 2012 11:20:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.152.46.36 with HTTP; Tue, 5 Jun 2012 11:20:27 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <7a5142ca-04bc-44db-8559-d3361c66c826@e20g2000vbm.googlegroups.com> References: <7a5142ca-04bc-44db-8559-d3361c66c826@e20g2000vbm.googlegroups.com> Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2012 12:20:27 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: mi do dunda be ti From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.217.180 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d0401faed7e0b3904c1bdb400 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / Content-Length: 6840 --f46d0401faed7e0b3904c1bdb400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable He is wrong about the interpretation, but he's not wrong about the result. This is the output of {mi do dunda be ti}: [1(2*[dunda1 (give-r(s)) :] **mi* *I, me*)2 (3*[dunda3 (recipient(s)) :] ** do* *you*)3 *[is, does]* =AB4{5*dunda* *giv-ing* *be* * * (6*[dunda2 (gift(s)) :] **ti* *this here*)6}5=BB4]1 On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 5:28 AM, ianek wrote: > You're wrong, jbofi'e doesn't interpret {be} that way. Proof: {mi fe > do dunda be ti}. Here, do goes into dunda2, not the x2 of "x1 gives > this to x2". > > mu'o mi'e ianek > > On 5 Cze, 11:50, tengo wrote: > > There are also other ways to confuse people, so your example just adds > > to that number. :) For another example, consider heavy use of FA and > > SE: > > > > fi la .man. la .filadelfias. te se ve klama fa la .ostin. > > > > From a similar discussion at this group I gathered that jbofi'e > > interprets {mi do dunda be ti} is correctly. For those who wonder, > > here is how it works. > > > > {dunda} > > x1 gives x2 to x3 > > > > When you attach a sumti to brivla with {be}, it fills one of brivla's > > places and deletes it from numbered place structure of selbri. > > > > {dunda be ti} > > x1 gives this to x2 > > > > Then {mi} and {do} fill the x1 and x2 of the resulting selbri. > > > > {mi do dunda be ti} =3D {mi dunda be ti do} > > I give this to you. > > > > Although, my opinion about this interpretation is not backed by > > official sources. I may need to read more. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den. > > --=20 mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den. --f46d0401faed7e0b3904c1bdb400 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable He is wrong about the interpretation, but he's not wrong about the resu= lt. This is the output of {mi do dunda be ti}:

[1(2[dund= a1 (give-r(s)) :] mi I, me)2 (3[dunda3 (recipient(s)) :] do you)3 [is, does] =AB4{5dunda giv-ing be (6[dunda2 (gift(s)) :] ti this here)6}<= sub class=3D"parenmark">5=BB4]1

On Tue, Jun 5, 2= 012 at 5:28 AM, ianek <janek37@gmail.com> wrote:
You're wrong, jbofi'e doesn't in= terpret {be} that way. Proof: {mi fe
do dunda be ti}. Here, do goes into dunda2, not the x2 of "x1 gives this to x2".

mu'o mi'e ianek

On 5 Cze, 11:50, tengo <yurock.te...@gmail.com> wrot= e:
> There are also other ways to confuse people, so your example just adds=
> to that number. :) For another example, consider heavy use of FA and > SE:
>
> fi la .man. la .filadelfias. te se ve klama fa la .ostin.
>
> From a similar discussion at this group I gathered that jbofi'e > interprets {mi do dunda be ti} is correctly. For those who wonder,
> here is how it works.
>
> {dunda}
> x1 gives x2 to x3
>
> When you attach a sumti to brivla with {be}, it fills one of brivla= 9;s
> places and deletes it from numbered place structure of selbri.
>
> {dunda be ti}
> x1 gives this to x2
>
> Then {mi} and {do} fill the x1 and x2 of the resulting selbri.
>
> {mi do dunda be ti} =3D {mi dunda be ti do}
> I give this to you.
>
> Although, my opinion about this interpretation is not backed by
> official sources. I may need to read more.

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--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l= uk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. = :D )

--
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