Received: from mail-wi0-f189.google.com ([209.85.212.189]:55358) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1SjnVf-00085r-I2; Wed, 27 Jun 2012 01:22:12 -0700 Received: by wibhr14 with SMTP id hr14sf550866wib.16 for ; Wed, 27 Jun 2012 01:21:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=DbltdUW0JTj3qBwEkuelDqEFDEvdCbelaYdtxb2gmu0=; b=6k8h/9kUZ6NjAHYd2rRc3WWCvC2EBhqm6NzBK7HdTcZMRzBnxwhLYi+ESL/hw6Qtpd xLpNMGq8RKYZjRubHBPLKmZDZh0J0rxrp1s1O8aygngil3nhRxgE/2r5FpQ1Bd+HPZ/V 3jDSc89bHFGxQBJ/9cIzIIkuEDUu/z8qiOuTU= Received: by 10.204.133.195 with SMTP id g3mr968137bkt.23.1340785311650; Wed, 27 Jun 2012 01:21:51 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.154.21 with SMTP id m21ls1066946bkw.2.gmail; Wed, 27 Jun 2012 01:21:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.149.210 with SMTP id u18mr2201141bkv.1.1340785310194; Wed, 27 Jun 2012 01:21:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.149.210 with SMTP id u18mr2201140bkv.1.1340785310163; Wed, 27 Jun 2012 01:21:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lb0-f179.google.com (mail-lb0-f179.google.com [209.85.217.179]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ig3si17610919bkc.3.2012.06.27.01.21.50 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 27 Jun 2012 01:21:50 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.217.179 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.217.179; Received: by mail-lb0-f179.google.com with SMTP id n1so1173493lba.38 for ; Wed, 27 Jun 2012 01:21:50 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.112.84.65 with SMTP id w1mr9091066lby.40.1340785309562; Wed, 27 Jun 2012 01:21:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.152.46.36 with HTTP; Wed, 27 Jun 2012 01:21:49 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 02:21:49 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] my first translation From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.217.179 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d0401696d18b8e104c36fe828 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / Content-Length: 19167 --f46d0401696d18b8e104c36fe828 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 10:39 PM, Ross Ogilvie wrote: > Excellent run through of the translation process. > > One query though, > > lo mivyskera'a je zbaskera'a po do > This section of the cll (http://dag.github.com/cll/14/12/) seems to > suggest that this would be a thing or things that are both technologically > and biologically intrinsic to you. Perhaps {ja} would capture the things > that are one or the other (or both). > > ie lo X .e lo Y = lo X ja Y > la X .e lo Y != lo X ja Y, la X .e lo Y = lo X je Y But you are correct that it would have been better to use ja (and/or) then je. > > mu'o mi'e ros > > > On 24 June 2012 15:14, Devin Prater wrote: > >> Oh, I am not discouraged. I just need to learn a bit more about the >> language and how it works more, and practice thinking more logically, >> I'm thinking about the "ship" thing now, I can't believe I called a >> starship a boat. I think translating things like this is a sort of >> creativity, because breaking things down from English words to what >> they truly are takes much creativeness, there doesn't seem to be many >> word-to-word translations from English to Lojban, well not many in >> this case anyways. Thanks for your help and guidance. >> >> On 6/23/12, Jonathan Jones wrote: >> > Certainly. I'll try to remember to do so. >> > >> > to pu benji ti fo lo mi me la.android. fonxa toi >> > mu'o mi'e.aionys. >> > On Jun 23, 2012 10:27 PM, ".arpis." >> wrote: >> > >> >> ki'e sai .aionys. >> >> >> >> I found that extremely informative and would appreciate any similar >> >> description for future translations you do that you are willing to >> >> provide. >> >> .i mi mutce se jungau gi'e ba da'i ckire tu'a lo simsa velski be lo nu >> >> ba xe fanva ku ku poi do nalpro fi lo nu sabji >> >> >> >> On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 11:34 PM, Jonathan Jones >> >> wrote: >> >> > That's actually the reason behind me going through my thought >> process, >> >> > rather than merely submitting my translation. This is not the first >> >> > translation project I've attempted, nor likely the last, so I have >> some >> >> > experience in hte hidden difficulties that lie within. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 8:59 PM, Devin Prater < >> r.d.t.prater@gmail.com> >> >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> Wow. You've given me some insight on the translation process, that I >> >> >> shouldn't translate just the words, but the true meaning, which is a >> >> >> little tricky sometimes, like with lower your shields. I think I >> >> >> should learn more Lojban before tackling things like this, I thought >> >> >> this would be quite simple. >> >> >> >> >> >> On 6/23/12, Jonathan Jones wrote: >> >> >> > I made a rather annoying mistake. I completely forgot to separate >> >> >> > the >> >> >> > two >> >> >> > sentences. There needs to be an {.i} in there. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > {mi'a selcme zo.borg. *.i* ko sisti lonu nensabji lo nencalku kei >> >> >> > gi'e >> >> >> > radydu'a lo do keslo'i} >> >> >> > >> >> >> > -- >> >> >> > mu'o mi'e .aionys. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do >> zo'o >> >> >> > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >> >> >> > >> >> >> > -- >> >> >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> >> >> > Groups >> >> >> > "Lojban Beginners" group. >> >> >> > To post to this group, send email to >> >> lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> >> >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> >> >> > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> >> >> > For more options, visit this group at >> >> >> > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> >> Groups >> >> >> "Lojban Beginners" group. >> >> >> To post to this group, send email to >> >> >> lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> >> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> >> >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> >> >> For more options, visit this group at >> >> >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > -- >> >> > mu'o mi'e .aionys. >> >> > >> >> > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >> >> > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >> >> > >> >> > -- >> >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> >> > Groups >> >> > "Lojban Beginners" group. >> >> > To post to this group, send email to >> lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> >> > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> >> > For more options, visit this group at >> >> > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> mu'o mi'e .arpis. >> >> >> >> -- >> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups >> >> "Lojban Beginners" group. >> >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com >> . >> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> >> For more options, visit this group at >> >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >> >> >> >> >> > >> > -- >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups >> > "Lojban Beginners" group. >> > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> > For more options, visit this group at >> > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >> > >> > >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Lojban Beginners" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >> >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > -- mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --f46d0401696d18b8e104c36fe828 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 10:39 PM, Ross O= gilvie <ross@rossogilvie.id.au> wrote:
Excellent run through of the translation process.

One query though,<= div class=3D"im">
lo mivyskera'a je zbaskera'a po do
Th= is section of the cll (http://dag.github.com/cll/14/12/) seems to suggest that thi= s would be a thing or things that are both technologically and biologically= intrinsic to you. Perhaps {ja} would capture the things that are one or th= e other (or both).

ie lo X .e lo Y =3D lo X ja Y

la X .e lo Y != =3D lo X ja Y, la X .e lo Y =3D lo X je Y

But you are correct that i= t would have been better to use ja (and/or) then je.
=A0

mu'o mi'e ros


On 24 June 2012 15:14, Devin Prater <r.d.t.p= rater@gmail.com> wrote:
Oh, I am not discouraged. I just need to lea= rn a bit more about the
language and how it works more, and practice thinking more logically,
I'm thinking about the "ship" thing now, I can't believe = I called a
starship a boat. I think translating things like this is a sort of
creativity, because breaking things down from English words to what
they truly are takes much creativeness, there doesn't seem to be many word-to-word translations from English to Lojban, well not many in
this case anyways. Thanks for your help and guidance.

On 6/23/12, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
> Certainly. I'll try to remember to do so.
>
> to pu benji ti fo lo mi me la.android. fonxa toi
> mu'o mi'e.aionys.
> On Jun 23, 2012 10:27 PM, ".arpis." <rpglover64+jbobau@gmail.com<= /a>> wrote:
>
>> ki'e sai .aionys.
>>
>> I found that extremely informative and would appreciate any simila= r
>> description for future translations you do that you are willing to=
>> provide.
>> .i mi mutce se jungau gi'e ba da'i ckire tu'a lo simsa= velski be lo nu
>> ba xe fanva ku ku poi do nalpro fi lo nu sabji
>>
>> On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 11:34 PM, Jonathan Jones <
eyeonus@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > That's actually the reason behind me going through my tho= ught process,
>> > rather than merely submitting my translation. This is not the= first
>> > translation project I've attempted, nor likely the last, = so I have some
>> > experience in hte hidden difficulties that lie within.
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 8:59 PM, Devin Prater <r.d.t.prater@gmail.com= >
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Wow. You've given me some insight on the translation = process, that I
>> >> shouldn't translate just the words, but the true mean= ing, which is a
>> >> little tricky sometimes, like with lower your shields. I = think I
>> >> should learn more Lojban before tackling things like this= , I thought
>> >> this would be quite simple.
>> >>
>> >> On 6/23/12, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > I made a rather annoying mistake. I completely forgo= t to separate
>> >> > the
>> >> > two
>> >> > sentences. There needs to be an {.i} in there.
>> >> >
>> >> > {mi'a selcme zo.borg. *.i* ko sisti lonu nensabj= i lo nencalku kei
>> >> > gi'e
>> >> > radydu'a lo do keslo'i}
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > mu'o mi'e .aionys.
>> >> >
>> >> > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l= uk. mi patfu do zo'o
>> >> > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )<= br> >> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > You received this message because you are subscribed= to the Google
>> >> > Groups
>> >> > "Lojban Beginners" group.
>> >> > To post to this group, send email to
>> lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
>> >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> >> > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.= com.
>> >> > For more options, visit this group at
>> >> > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beg= inners?hl=3Den.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to t= he Google
>> Groups
>> >> "Lojban Beginners" group.
>> >> To post to this group, send email to
>> >> lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
>> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>> >> For more options, visit this group at
>> >>
http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginner= s?hl=3Den.
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > mu'o mi'e .aionys.
>> >
>> > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi pa= tfu do zo'o
>> > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
>> >
>> > --
>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the G= oogle
>> > Groups
>> > "Lojban Beginners" group.
>> > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroup= s.com.
>> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.<= br> >> > For more options, visit this group at
>> > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl= =3Den.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> mu'o mi'e .arpis.
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google= Groups
>> "Lojban Beginners" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com= .
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den= .
>>
>>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Gro= ups
> "Lojban Beginners" group.
> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com= .
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den= .
>
>

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+un= subscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/g= roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.


--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+un= subscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/g= roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.



--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l= uk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. = :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.
--f46d0401696d18b8e104c36fe828--