Received: from mail-ob0-f189.google.com ([209.85.214.189]:40217) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1Sjnxq-0008OL-Kw; Wed, 27 Jun 2012 01:51:07 -0700 Received: by obbun3 with SMTP id un3sf804533obb.16 for ; Wed, 27 Jun 2012 01:51:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:mime-version:date:in-reply-to:references:user-agent :x-http-useragent:message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=T4z3rWiSoxXZS4Pw7SzUSJ40E2I13nmXH7M9OHTaoYY=; b=KPkJhrkzlkD+hyNaPHoAm5cE/+cgGIFHWjItq7W86rYlMqMZO1dbv0Cdb5jb/jx8EF yBZ2N9VTC2LIbkforDuqiDIOG81IcYPVu1xxEQzfgOTf9TuYqTD8ibYetVunC4P5NXpX O6bNxStVe+y3wh6Zk9HgTusOkFRHtoUCS7V5g= Received: by 10.52.34.9 with SMTP id v9mr465076vdi.9.1340787060094; Wed, 27 Jun 2012 01:51:00 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.230.193 with SMTP id jn1ls648799vcb.8.gmail; Wed, 27 Jun 2012 01:50:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.94.147 with SMTP id dc19mr102872vdb.17.1340787059568; Wed, 27 Jun 2012 01:50:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by k5g2000vbf.googlegroups.com with HTTP; Wed, 27 Jun 2012 01:50:59 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 01:50:59 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686) AppleWebKit/535.19 (KHTML, like Gecko) Ubuntu/11.04 Chromium/18.0.1025.151 Chrome/18.0.1025.151 Safari/535.19,gzip(gfe) Message-ID: Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: my first translation From: ianek To: Lojban Beginners X-Original-Sender: janek37@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: ls.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of janek37@gmail.com designates internal as permitted sender) smtp.mail=janek37@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / Content-Length: 7662 On 27 Cze, 10:21, Jonathan Jones wrote: > On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 10:39 PM, Ross Ogilvie wr= ote: > > > Excellent run through of the translation process. > > > One query though, > > > lo mivyskera'a je zbaskera'a po do > > This section of the cll (http://dag.github.com/cll/14/12/) seems to > > suggest that this would be a thing or things that are both technologica= lly > > and biologically intrinsic to you. Perhaps {ja} would capture the thing= s > > that are one or the other (or both). > > > ie lo X .e lo Y =3D lo X ja Y > > la X .e lo Y !=3D lo X ja Y, la X .e lo Y =3D lo X je Y First, it should be noted that that's your opinion and isn't backed by any official text (which aren't explicit in the matter of tanru connectives). Second, the "=3D" may suggest symmetrical equality, which is not true, as "lo X je Y" may be one object and "lo X e lo Y" must be at least two. mu'o mi'e ianek > But you are correct that it would have been better to use ja (and/or) the= n > je. > > > > > > > > > > > > > mu'o mi'e ros > > > On 24 June 2012 15:14, Devin Prater wrote: > > >> Oh, I am not discouraged. I just need to learn a bit more about the > >> language and how it works more, and practice thinking more logically, > >> I'm thinking about the "ship" thing now, I can't believe I called a > >> starship a boat. I think translating things like this is a sort of > >> creativity, because breaking things down from English words to what > >> they truly are takes much creativeness, there doesn't seem to be many > >> word-to-word translations from English to Lojban, well not many in > >> this case anyways. Thanks for your help and guidance. > > >> On 6/23/12, Jonathan Jones wrote: > >> > Certainly. I'll try to remember to do so. > > >> > to pu benji ti fo lo mi me la.android. fonxa toi > >> > mu'o mi'e.aionys. > >> > On Jun 23, 2012 10:27 PM, ".arpis." > >> wrote: > > >> >> ki'e sai .aionys. > > >> >> I found that extremely informative and would appreciate any similar > >> >> description for future translations you do that you are willing to > >> >> provide. > >> >> .i mi mutce se jungau gi'e ba da'i ckire tu'a lo simsa velski be lo= nu > >> >> ba xe fanva ku ku poi do nalpro fi lo nu sabji > > >> >> On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 11:34 PM, Jonathan Jones > >> >> wrote: > >> >> > That's actually the reason behind me going through my thought > >> process, > >> >> > rather than merely submitting my translation. This is not the fir= st > >> >> > translation project I've attempted, nor likely the last, so I hav= e > >> some > >> >> > experience in hte hidden difficulties that lie within. > > >> >> > On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 8:59 PM, Devin Prater < > >> r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com> > >> >> > wrote: > > >> >> >> Wow. You've given me some insight on the translation process, th= at I > >> >> >> shouldn't translate just the words, but the true meaning, which = is a > >> >> >> little tricky sometimes, like with lower your shields. I think I > >> >> >> should learn more Lojban before tackling things like this, I tho= ught > >> >> >> this would be quite simple. > > >> >> >> On 6/23/12, Jonathan Jones wrote: > >> >> >> > I made a rather annoying mistake. I completely forgot to separ= ate > >> >> >> > the > >> >> >> > two > >> >> >> > sentences. There needs to be an {.i} in there. > > >> >> >> > {mi'a selcme zo.borg. *.i* ko sisti lonu nensabji lo nencalku = kei > >> >> >> > gi'e > >> >> >> > radydu'a lo do keslo'i} > > >> >> >> > -- > >> >> >> > mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > >> >> >> > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu d= o > >> zo'o > >> >> >> > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) > > >> >> >> > -- > >> >> >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Go= ogle > >> >> >> > Groups > >> >> >> > "Lojban Beginners" group. > >> >> >> > To post to this group, send email to > >> >> lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > >> >> >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> >> >> > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > >> >> >> > For more options, visit this group at > >> >> >> >http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den. > > >> >> >> -- > >> >> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Goog= le > >> >> Groups > >> >> >> "Lojban Beginners" group. > >> >> >> To post to this group, send email to > >> >> >> lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > >> >> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> >> >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > >> >> >> For more options, visit this group at > >> >> >>http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den. > > >> >> > -- > >> >> > mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > >> >> > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do z= o'o > >> >> > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) > > >> >> > -- > >> >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Googl= e > >> >> > Groups > >> >> > "Lojban Beginners" group. > >> >> > To post to this group, send email to > >> lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > >> >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> >> > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > >> >> > For more options, visit this group at > >> >> >http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den. > > >> >> -- > >> >> mu'o mi'e .arpis. > > >> >> -- > >> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >> Groups > >> >> "Lojban Beginners" group. > >> >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.= com > >> . > >> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > >> >> For more options, visit this group at > >> >>http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den. > > >> > -- > >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >> Groups > >> > "Lojban Beginners" group. > >> > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.c= om. > >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > >> > For more options, visit this group at > >> >http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den. > > >> -- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Gro= ups > >> "Lojban Beginners" group. > >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com= . > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > >> For more options, visit this group at > >>http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den. > > > =A0-- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Grou= ps > > "Lojban Beginners" group. > > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > > For more options, visit this group at > >http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den. > > -- > mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.