On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 6:13 AM, Jonathan Jo= nes <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:

You should have used an example that's actually possible, since cats ca= n not be dogs and vice versa, but I get your point. Regardless, while what = you say does show that {lo broda .e brode} is not always equivalent {lo bro= da je lo brode}, it doesn't mean that {lo broda .e brode} =3D {lo broda= ja lo brode}. {lo broda .e brode cu brodi} =3D {ge lo broda cu brodi gi lo= brode cu brodi}.

On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 3:58 AM, ianek <jan= ek37@gmail.com> wrote:
The meaning of {broda je brode} is not well defined if some sumti are
plural. Your opinion is that "lo remei ku mlatu je gerku" means t= hat
one thing is a dog and the other is a cat, but it doesn't follow from any official text I know of. In an other interpretation it may mean
that both things are cats and dogs simultanouosly. Problems with your
interpretation may start eg. when there are more plural sumti in the
bridi, like {lo remei ku nelci je cinba lo cimei}.

mu'o mi'e ianek

On 27 Cze, 11:32, Jonathan Jones <eyeo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm sorry, what?
>
> {je} means "and". {e} means "and". {ja} means &quo= t;and/or". There's no opinion
> involved.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

> On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 2:50 AM, ianek <jane...@gmail.com> wrote= :
>
> > On 27 Cze, 10:21, Jonathan Jones <eyeo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 10:39 PM, Ross Ogilvie <r...@rossogilvie.id.au=
> > >wrote:
>
> > > > Excellent run through of the translation process.
>
> > > > One query though,
>
> > > > lo mivyskera'a je zbaskera'a po do
> > > > This section of the cll (http://dag.github.com/cll/14/12/) seem= s to
> > > > suggest that this would be a thing or things that are b= oth
> > technologically
> > > > and biologically intrinsic to you. Perhaps {ja} would c= apture the
> > things
> > > > that are one or the other (or both).
>
> > > > ie lo X .e lo Y =3D lo X ja Y
>
> > > la X .e lo Y !=3D lo X ja Y, la X .e lo Y =3D lo X je Y
>
> > First, it should be noted that that's your opinion and isn= 9;t backed by
> > any official text (which aren't explicit in the matter of tan= ru
> > connectives).
> > Second, the "=3D" may suggest symmetrical equality, whi= ch is not true,
> > as "lo X je Y" may be one object and "lo X e lo Y&= quot; must be at least
> > two.
>
> > mu'o mi'e ianek
>
> > > But you are correct that it would have been better to use ja= (and/or)
> > then
> > > je.
>
> > > > mu'o mi'e ros
>
> > > > On 24 June 2012 15:14, Devin Prater <r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com>= wrote:
>
> > > >> Oh, I am not discouraged. I just need to learn a bi= t more about the
> > > >> language and how it works more, and practice thinki= ng more logically,
> > > >> I'm thinking about the "ship" thing n= ow, I can't believe I called a
> > > >> starship a boat. I think translating things like th= is is a sort of
> > > >> creativity, because breaking things down from Engli= sh words to what
> > > >> they truly are takes much creativeness, there doesn= 't seem to be many
> > > >> word-to-word translations from English to Lojban, w= ell not many in
> > > >> this case anyways. Thanks for your help and guidanc= e.
>
> > > >> On 6/23/12, Jonathan Jones <eyeo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >> > Certainly. I'll try to remember to do so.<= br> >
> > > >> > to pu benji ti fo lo mi me la.android. fonxa t= oi
> > > >> > mu'o mi'e.aionys.
> > > >> > On Jun 23, 2012 10:27 PM, ".arpis." = <rpgl= over64+jbo...@gmail.com>
> > > >> wrote:
>
> > > >> >> ki'e sai .aionys.
>
> > > >> >> I found that extremely informative and wou= ld appreciate any similar
> > > >> >> description for future translations you do= that you are willing to
> > > >> >> provide.
> > > >> >> .i mi mutce se jungau gi'e ba da'i= ckire tu'a lo simsa velski be
> > lo nu
> > > >> >> ba xe fanva ku ku poi do nalpro fi lo nu s= abji
>
> > > >> >> On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 11:34 PM, Jonathan= Jones <
> > eyeo...@gm= ail.com>
> > > >> >> wrote:
> > > >> >> > That's actually the reason behind= me going through my thought
> > > >> process,
> > > >> >> > rather than merely submitting my tran= slation. This is not the
> > first
> > > >> >> > translation project I've attempte= d, nor likely the last, so I
> > have
> > > >> some
> > > >> >> > experience in hte hidden difficulties= that lie within.
>
> > > >> >> > On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 8:59 PM, Devi= n Prater <
> > > >> r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com>
> > > >> >> > wrote:
>
> > > >> >> >> Wow. You've given me some ins= ight on the translation process,
> > that I
> > > >> >> >> shouldn't translate just the = words, but the true meaning, which
> > is a
> > > >> >> >> little tricky sometimes, like wit= h lower your shields. I think I
> > > >> >> >> should learn more Lojban before t= ackling things like this, I
> > thought
> > > >> >> >> this would be quite simple.
>
> > > >> >> >> On 6/23/12, Jonathan Jones <eyeo...@gmail.com&= gt; wrote:
> > > >> >> >> > I made a rather annoying mis= take. I completely forgot to
> > separate
> > > >> >> >> > the
> > > >> >> >> > two
> > > >> >> >> > sentences. There needs to be= an {.i} in there.
>
> > > >> >> >> > {mi'a selcme zo.borg. *.= i* ko sisti lonu nensabji lo nencalku
> > kei
> > > >> >> >> > gi'e
> > > >> >> >> > radydu'a lo do keslo'= ;i}
>
> > > >> >> >> > --
> > > >> >> >> > mu'o mi'e .aionys. >
> > > >> >> >> > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pi= lno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu
> > do
> > > >> zo'o
> > > >> >> >> > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke,= I am your father. :D )
>
> > > >> >> >> > --
> > > >> >> >> > You received this message be= cause you are subscribed to the
> > Google
> > > >> >> >> > Groups
> > > >> >> >> > "Lojban Beginners"= group.
> > > >> >> >> > To post to this group, send = email to
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> > > >> >> >> > To unsubscribe from this gro= up, send email to
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>
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>
> > > >> >> > --
> > > >> >> > mu'o mi'e .aionys.
>
> > > >> >> > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be de= npa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do
> > zo'o
> > > >> >> > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am you= r father. :D )
>
> > > >> >> > --
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> > > >> >> > Groups
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> > > >> >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send = email to
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>
> > > >> >> --
> > > >> >> mu'o mi'e .arpis.
>
> > > >> >> --
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> > > --

> > > mu'o mi'e .aionys.
>
> > > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi p= atfu do zo'o
> > > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
>
> > --
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> > "Lojban Beginners" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.co= m.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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> > For more options, visit this group at
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>
> --
> mu'o mi'e .aionys.
>
> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo= 'o
> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

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mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l= uk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. = :D )

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