Received: from mail-yw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.213.61]:55867) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1St2Dd-0003e8-EX; Sun, 22 Jul 2012 12:53:42 -0700 Received: by yhoo21 with SMTP id o21sf6596858yho.16 for ; Sun, 22 Jul 2012 12:53:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-pair-authenticated:message-id:date:from :user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=ZJYvX7leU8G2q0419Tv8wn7lHlKiWXS4413joGfXsVU=; b=Mm3efGYNv50TNNGx8ofEJjG2LvO+oZ1voSF9Lrr8x8LAD7n+D90eB3kfayeWYRXmW+ wXKMK4QfR/+8inlv8yysc40F9sM9dz6A0vV3TvLPU/wChLOC1WiLZaKUI9wfZwEIrwFV XRYB7okSTkeJXLCbkh1H8vvsfAquze451al8Y= Received: by 10.50.89.170 with SMTP id bp10mr2946278igb.2.1342986806554; Sun, 22 Jul 2012 12:53:26 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.50.42.165 with SMTP id p5ls2357123igl.1.canary; Sun, 22 Jul 2012 12:53:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.50.179.66 with SMTP id de2mr14715977igc.4.1342986805628; Sun, 22 Jul 2012 12:53:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.50.179.66 with SMTP id de2mr14715976igc.4.1342986805619; Sun, 22 Jul 2012 12:53:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay02.pair.com (relay02.pair.com. [209.68.5.16]) by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id ad4si1550017igc.1.2012.07.22.12.53.25; Sun, 22 Jul 2012 12:53:25 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 209.68.5.16 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of m3o@plasmatix.com) client-ip=209.68.5.16; Received: (qmail 90026 invoked from network); 22 Jul 2012 19:53:24 -0000 Received: from 87.160.151.126 (HELO ?192.168.1.33?) (87.160.151.126) by relay02.pair.com with SMTP; 22 Jul 2012 19:53:24 -0000 X-pair-Authenticated: 87.160.151.126 Message-ID: <500C5A32.2080905@plasmatix.com> Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2012 21:53:22 +0200 From: selpa'i User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:14.0) Gecko/20120713 Thunderbird/14.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] ko klama ma References: <500B129A.6050000@plasmatix.com> In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: m3o@plasmatix.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 209.68.5.16 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of m3o@plasmatix.com) smtp.mail=m3o@plasmatix.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / Content-Length: 1304 Am 22.07.2012 07:41, schrieb Felipe Gon=E7alves Assis: > On 21 July 2012 17:35, selpa'i wrote: >> (2a) ko klama ma >> >> (2b) mi minde do lo nu do klama ma >> "I command you to go where?" >> > > By a similar logic, from {do klama ma} we could get > {mi xusra lo du'u do klama ma} Yes, but the expansions I used aren't actually identical. They only=20 serve to show the order of operations. {ko klama} and {mi do minde lo nu=20 do klama} are of different moods and do not (necessarily) have identical=20 implicatures. In the case of your example, I don't think you can expand=20 it to {mi xusra lo du'u do ma klama} because {ma} is the only operator=20 and so no extra step, i.e. no expansion, should be carried out. mu'o mi'e la selpa'i --=20 .i pau mi me ma .i pa mai ko mi jungau la'e di'u .i ba bo mi va'o lo nu nelci lo nu me ma kau cu barkla .i va'o lo nu na nelci cu denpa ti lo nu mi drata --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.