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Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 08:03:40 -0400
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Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: xu kau
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On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 7:08 PM, tengo <yurock.tengo@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I think the issue really isn't with the "xu", but the fact that NA is
>> scoped over the whole bridi
>
>
> I think, here, function of {na} is very simple. Let's suppose, the
> "previous" sentence is {.i ta mlatu xu}. Then
> {go'i} = {ta mlatu} = "that's true"
> {na go'i} = {ta na mlatu} = {na ku ta mlatu} = "that's false"
>
> But that's not the point. More important is that {ta mlatu xu} does not
> contain a claim. The questioner usually doesn't even know whether that is a
> cat or not. Now does {do jinvi lo du'u ta mlatu xu ku ta} contain a claim?
> Does it say that you indeed have some opinion about that object?
>
  xu is a UI, and like all UI, scopes only over the previous word (if
that word itself defines a larger scope, such as a LE or NU or FUhE,
then of course it covers the entire scope of that.)  It also
implicitly acts somewhat ba'e-ish, in that it emphasizes that
word/structure.  So when you say, "do jinvi lo du'u ta mlatu xu ku ta"
you are indeed making the claim that the listener has an opinion,
equivalent to the English "You think that's a /cat/?!" ("xu do jinvi
lo du'u ta mlatu kei ta" or the equivalent "do jinvi lo du'u ta mlatu
kei ta vau xu", on the other hand are in fact asking whether you have
any opinion at all. ("Is it true that you think that's a cat?")_
Nonetheless, I still maintain that when you answer "na go'i", you are
not, formally speaking, negating just the xu "in place" if you will,
but the entire xu-less bridi,  and therefore are not answering the
question you think you are answering.  Now it could fairly be argued
that I am wrong, and that since we have things like "na'i" to answer
the question "I don't have any opinions at all; what are you talking
about?", that "na" should just scope over the sub-bridi, but I think
if that's what you really want you should say (maybe??) "go'i naku"
(since this implies the second of the terbri is the only thing
negated) . Of course, in informal conversation, we all know what ""na
go'i" is intended to mean, so no pressure...

                                --gejyspa

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