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Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] my first translation
From: Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com>
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  Sure.

On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 3:56 PM, .arpis. <rpglover64+jbobau@gmail.com>wrote:

> I don't quite like {mi'e la borg} because it doesn't convey the
> plurality, which I feel is important in this case; can we say {mi'e
> lai borg}?
>
> On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 2:25 PM, Michael Turniansky
> <mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 7:14 PM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> For the first sentence, The Borg are identifying themselves by name.
> This
> >> means that the gismu {cmene} is needed: "x1 is the name of x2...".
> Since the
> >> name is first, in order to keep the order of the English intact we have
> to
> >> flip {cmene} using {se}, i.e. {se cmene} or {selcme}. The x1 of {cmene}
> (or
> >> the x2 of {selcme}) is a name, and so is a quoted word, which means we
> use
> >> {zo}, at least for single word names. Finally, The Borg are announcing
> that
> >> /they/ are the Borg, the x2 of {cmene}. We can use either {mi} or
> {mi'a},
> >> the difference being that {mi'a} explicitly excludes the addressee(s),
> >> whereas {mi} does not. So, we have:
> >>
> >> {mi'a selcme zo.borg.}
> >>
> >> For "We are the Borg".
> >>
> >
> >   You actually don't need to do that.  "mi'e [la] borg."   works
> perfectly
> > fine.  Mi'e not only serves not only to indicate the speaker, but to
> label
> > them.
> >      --gejyspa
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "Lojban Beginners" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> > For more options, visit this group at
> > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.
>
>
>
> --
> mu'o mi'e .arpis.
>
> --
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>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">=A0 Sure.<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Aug 10=
, 2012 at 3:56 PM, .arpis. <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rpglover=
64+jbobau@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">rpglover64+jbobau@gmail.com</a>&gt;<=
/span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">I don&#39;t quite like {mi&#39;e la borg} be=
cause it doesn&#39;t convey the<br>
plurality, which I feel is important in this case; can we say {mi&#39;e<br>
lai borg}?<br>
<div><div class=3D"h5"><br>
On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 2:25 PM, Michael Turniansky<br>
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mturniansky@gmail.com">mturniansky@gmail.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 7:14 PM, Jonathan Jones &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
eyeonus@gmail.com">eyeonus@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; For the first sentence, The Borg are identifying themselves by nam=
e. This<br>
&gt;&gt; means that the gismu {cmene} is needed: &quot;x1 is the name of x2=
...&quot;. Since the<br>
&gt;&gt; name is first, in order to keep the order of the English intact we=
 have to<br>
&gt;&gt; flip {cmene} using {se}, i.e. {se cmene} or {selcme}. The x1 of {c=
mene} (or<br>
&gt;&gt; the x2 of {selcme}) is a name, and so is a quoted word, which mean=
s we use<br>
&gt;&gt; {zo}, at least for single word names. Finally, The Borg are announ=
cing that<br>
&gt;&gt; /they/ are the Borg, the x2 of {cmene}. We can use either {mi} or =
{mi&#39;a},<br>
&gt;&gt; the difference being that {mi&#39;a} explicitly excludes the addre=
ssee(s),<br>
&gt;&gt; whereas {mi} does not. So, we have:<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; {mi&#39;a selcme zo.borg.}<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; For &quot;We are the Borg&quot;.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; =A0 You actually don&#39;t need to do that. =A0&quot;mi&#39;e [la] bor=
g.&quot; =A0 works perfectly<br>
&gt; fine. =A0Mi&#39;e not only serves not only to indicate the speaker, bu=
t to label<br>
&gt; them.<br>
&gt; =A0 =A0 =A0--gejyspa<br>
&gt;<br>
</div></div><div class=3D"im">&gt; --<br>
&gt; You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Gro=
ups<br>
&gt; &quot;Lojban Beginners&quot; group.<br>
&gt; To post to this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban-beginner=
s@googlegroups.com">lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
&gt; To unsubscribe from this group, send email to<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:lojban-beginners%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com">loj=
ban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
&gt; For more options, visit this group at<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den</a>=
.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
</div>mu&#39;o mi&#39;e .arpis.<br>
<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
--<br>
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<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>

<p></p>

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/>
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