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Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Where should I use sets and where should I use masses?
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On 4 September 2012 04:18, tijlan <jbotijlan@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 2 September 2012 13:47, gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:
> > {loi prenu cu sruri lo dinju} - why not lo gunma be lo prenu cu sruri lo
> dinju?
>
> {loi prenu} means {lo gunma be lo prenu}. If you reckon the latter is
> correct, you would think the former is correct too.
>

{loi} and {lo'i} are just shortcuts for LAhE or longer bridi expressions.


>
> That's a comparison between different ways of expressing a mass,
> whereas "Where should I use sets and where should I use masses?" is
> asking for a comparison between set expressions & mass expressions in
> the same places:
>
> ( loi / lo'i ) prenu cu sruri lo dinju -- which gadri?
>

Sets have no representation in reality and exist in a somewhat ethereal
realm alongside bridi (lo du'u broda) and text (lu ma drani danfu).
Therefore they can't surround anything.


>
>
> > {lo'i tirxu cu cmalu} - why not so'u tirxu?
>
> Do you mean
> "Why {lo'i tirxu cu cmalu} and not {so'u tirxu}?"
> or
> "Why {lo'i tirxu cu cmalu} and not {so'u tirxu cu cmalu}?"
> or
> "Why {lo'i tirxu cu cmalu} and not {loi tirxu cu so'u mei}?"
> ?
>
>
Sets can be big or small. They have a cardinality, i.e. a size, which is
comparable. This leads to the drastic difference between {lo'i tirxu cu
cmalu} and {lo tirxu cu cmalu}: {lo'i tirxu cu cmalu} says simply that the
*set* of tigers is small and says *nothing* about the actual tigers,
whereas {lo tirxu cu cmalu} (regardless of any quantifiers) says that the
tigers are each small. You can have a small set of enormous tigers in the
same way that you can have a large set of tiny ones.

>
> mu'o
>
> --
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>
>

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On 4 September 2012 04:18, tijlan <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:j=
botijlan@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">jbotijlan@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wr=
ote:<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">

<div class=3D"im">On 2 September 2012 13:47, gleki &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gl=
eki.is.my.name@gmail.com">gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; {loi prenu cu sruri lo dinju} - why not lo gunma be lo prenu cu sruri =
lo dinju?<br>
<br>
</div>{loi prenu} means {lo gunma be lo prenu}. If you reckon the latter is=
<br>
correct, you would think the former is correct too.<br></blockquote><div><b=
r></div><div>{loi} and {lo&#39;i} are just shortcuts for LAhE or longer bri=
di expressions.</div><div>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">


<br>
That&#39;s a comparison between different ways of expressing a mass,<br>
whereas &quot;Where should I use sets and where should I use masses?&quot; =
is<br>
asking for a comparison between set expressions &amp; mass expressions in<b=
r>
the same places:<br>
<br>
( loi / lo&#39;i ) prenu cu sruri lo dinju -- which gadri?<br></blockquote>=
<div><br></div><div>Sets have no representation in reality and exist in a s=
omewhat ethereal realm alongside bridi (lo du&#39;u broda) and text (lu ma =
drani danfu). Therefore they can&#39;t surround anything.</div>

<div>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;=
border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div class=3D"im"><br>
<br>
&gt; {lo&#39;i tirxu cu cmalu} - why not so&#39;u tirxu?<br>
<br>
</div>Do you mean<br>
&quot;Why {lo&#39;i tirxu cu cmalu} and not {so&#39;u tirxu}?&quot;<br>
or<br>
&quot;Why {lo&#39;i tirxu cu cmalu} and not {so&#39;u tirxu cu cmalu}?&quot=
;<br>
or<br>
&quot;Why {lo&#39;i tirxu cu cmalu} and not {loi tirxu cu so&#39;u mei}?&qu=
ot;<br>
?<br>
<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Sets can be big or small. They have a =
cardinality, i.e. a size, which is comparable. This leads to the drastic di=
fference between {lo&#39;i tirxu cu cmalu} and {lo tirxu cu cmalu}: {lo&#39=
;i tirxu cu cmalu} says simply that the *set* of tigers is small and says *=
nothing* about the actual tigers, whereas {lo tirxu cu cmalu} (regardless o=
f any quantifiers) says that the tigers are each small. You can have a smal=
l set of enormous tigers in the same way that you can have a large set of t=
iny ones.</div>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
mu&#39;o<br>
<div class=3D"im HOEnZb"><br>
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roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den" target=3D"_blank">http://groups.google.com/g=
roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den</a>.<br>
<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br>

<p></p>

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