Received: from mail-ob0-f189.google.com ([209.85.214.189]:47859)
	by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128)
	(Exim 4.76)
	(envelope-from <lojban-beginners+bncCNf8pM-bDBDswbGCBRoEp8nojg@googlegroups.com>)
	id 1TAdnQ-0008Jf-3y; Sun, 09 Sep 2012 02:27:30 -0700
Received: by obbun3 with SMTP id un3sf1197350obb.16
        for <multiple recipients>; Sun, 09 Sep 2012 02:27:09 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806;
        h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references
         :date:message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender
         :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list
         :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive
         :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type;
        bh=2yMkoWTGyQ4N1+bx5Ep2jaTykpXpiO7gLjEog46kSbg=;
        b=opJWQ3zzYtcD2qrN9mV2ArVAECurW3WshjIaMZFgdWxjIMOWWBjk0pUcxXBQ5veuY9
         5RobIrIJyBMgr4YicThRp1a+RQY/khX995/QJf/chcxUx91UYvMw6+x0eVRPI6YR9zjW
         WEPWruMpbPxexes3qBMRhGInP5TG8mMcSHwVUJ3lT6B8NhOCmkP8zzdIsZGn+6rvlojo
         DujfrQE/KByZY1YxEcelNC9lTtDEEOtB1C8buMJpidSgGu+FsIT0JVSD/GnaHejpt/Mi
         dQ7w2CfLzuuVqcBYfUJMxn9iE3ULCZIKUZvBZTeq6l1bVgQdYPJF3AUfq8zlH35EYLAv
         r4MQ==
Received: by 10.52.37.74 with SMTP id w10mr1475756vdj.8.1347182829223;
        Sun, 09 Sep 2012 02:27:09 -0700 (PDT)
X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Received: by 10.220.155.6 with SMTP id q6ls724152vcw.3.gmail; Sun, 09 Sep 2012
 02:27:08 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.58.253.5 with SMTP id zw5mr4041183vec.2.1347182828750;
        Sun, 09 Sep 2012 02:27:08 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.58.253.5 with SMTP id zw5mr4041182vec.2.1347182828742;
        Sun, 09 Sep 2012 02:27:08 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-vc0-f178.google.com (mail-vc0-f178.google.com [209.85.220.178])
        by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id z16si859386vdf.0.2012.09.09.02.27.08
        (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER);
        Sun, 09 Sep 2012 02:27:08 -0700 (PDT)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of paskios@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.178 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.220.178;
Received: by vcbf13 with SMTP id f13so167016vcb.9
        for <lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com>; Sun, 09 Sep 2012 02:27:08 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.58.74.3 with SMTP id p3mr15598293vev.27.1347182828571; Sun, 09
 Sep 2012 02:27:08 -0700 (PDT)
Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Received: by 10.58.248.41 with HTTP; Sun, 9 Sep 2012 02:27:08 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <CAM+8gfW2MS13oYBGx0p9RRDNAUn2HcVo5K+zPE7v=RkcbJdTyQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20be4ca8-903c-4c64-bf94-554dd2a6bd92@googlegroups.com>
	<d19423a0-b4d3-4c31-9ef1-2fcd140138f3@googlegroups.com>
	<990957eb-a351-49c8-98d2-cfe4643f74db@googlegroups.com>
	<CALm==BX=RHnu6=6bhXYD0hUrXiebLsB2ftATHHeMv7OBkUJ83A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAM+8gfW2MS13oYBGx0p9RRDNAUn2HcVo5K+zPE7v=RkcbJdTyQ@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 10:27:08 +0100
Message-ID: <CAPAJj9JPsSVZrMJ3hJz5bgeQLi4K=sFNi5j8b2dNWabh=dn9GQ@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: Animal noises
From: tijlan <jbotijlan@gmail.com>
To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
X-Original-Sender: paskios@gmail.com
X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com:
 domain of paskios@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.178 as permitted sender)
 smtp.mail=paskios@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com
Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <lojban-beginners.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892
List-Post: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/post?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <http://groups.google.com/support/?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban-beginners+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en_US>
List-Subscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/subscribe?hl=en_US>,
 <mailto:lojban-beginners+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/subscribe?hl=en_US>,
 <mailto:googlegroups-manage+300742228892+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Spam_score: 0.0
X-Spam_score_int: 0
X-Spam_bar: /
Content-Length: 1483

"Woof!" isn't always a noise. Many non-human expressions are still
cognitive products and represent something in a non-random way. They
can have meanings and are different from non-cognitive sounds such as
"Splash!".

"Woof!" may not have a layered syntax or an argument structure, which
is analogous to Lojban's observatives (selbri-only expressions). An
observative with an avalent (zero-argument) brivla could work much as
"Woof!", in my opinion.

If we were to create a brivla for each animal exression, probably we
would have to tap into the expandability of fu'ivla, much like we did
for certain ISO codes:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ai4mbIPr2PUwdENVckVaOTJLbVdGVE5SeGJ0MTBTbGc
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ai4mbIPr2PUwdGNYUFhrdmV1cmpLeVVQZkNSU3dBYUE

We could have a similar list of expressional sounds using some kind of
indicative prefixes. For example:

cmo,ufu / gerku,uu (Woof!)
cmonkua / datkakua (Quack!)
cmomiau / mlatumiau (Meow!)

molxisi / sincexisi (Hiss!)

zbi,onki / xarju,onki (Oink!)

These would all be zero-argument and compatible with {lu ... li'u}.


mu'o

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.