Received: from mail-ob0-f189.google.com ([209.85.214.189]:65377) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1TNyhc-0004bx-RP; Mon, 15 Oct 2012 21:24:30 -0700 Received: by mail-ob0-f189.google.com with SMTP id 16sf4977052obc.16 for ; Mon, 15 Oct 2012 21:24:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:from:to:subject:date:message-id:user-agent :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-transfer-encoding :content-type; bh=XBQaaOcZ63hF61lTtVRWzLT77PvZzdqrOXZnoy2ZszM=; b=pjm1CW6smWqiu32V8N4Y0/TFdaLsjGLHdQ/HzpkcfFhbfSHYNo0MQptfBhdWCvuxuH grFtohzxfGbPU/3/W9Qqghg0sRk6z3DAwanHRfZ1f2y3s6cFxG6DdgpElGhlp31EZRw9 risC0+ce02Zd7PLIU0qczHk/rleSOszFZC00bu1FKYCItegTjI8TuEqtasIaV2YTWjIU C9xrJZyV0TKfrQlYTWRbiyWfsYwsR5kil3JAdYtWYWF0Pgp/FFebF7YeCjlwby1vcfur L/P/zQKLinxXq/aqu6rS4+CNUn84us9Wg1ZwF6Dnhn+bp3NxocOT8pxaeJvid+CC7569 UIOQ== Received: by 10.236.149.66 with SMTP id w42mr1718700yhj.18.1350361447801; Mon, 15 Oct 2012 21:24:07 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.236.120.244 with SMTP id p80ls8939578yhh.0.gmail; Mon, 15 Oct 2012 21:24:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.236.117.66 with SMTP id i42mr10973004yhh.8.1350361447290; Mon, 15 Oct 2012 21:24:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.236.117.66 with SMTP id i42mr10973003yhh.8.1350361447276; Mon, 15 Oct 2012 21:24:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from chausie ([2001:470:8:42:2c0:f0ff:fe3b:b5b5]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id g7si751822anp.1.2012.10.15.21.24.06; Mon, 15 Oct 2012 21:24:06 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 2001:470:8:42:2c0:f0ff:fe3b:b5b5 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of phma@phma.optus.nu) client-ip=2001:470:8:42:2c0:f0ff:fe3b:b5b5; Received: from caracal.localnet (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chausie (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1D3C15760 for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2012 00:24:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Abbat To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Phonological assimilation Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 00:24:04 -0400 Message-ID: <4290433.gcKiFVYbde@caracal> User-Agent: KMail/4.8.5 (Linux/3.2.0-31-generic; KDE/4.8.5; x86_64; ; ) In-Reply-To: <73ff5206-2ca2-46b2-84fd-3d4baefc6574@googlegroups.com> References: <73ff5206-2ca2-46b2-84fd-3d4baefc6574@googlegroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: phma@phma.optus.nu X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 2001:470:8:42:2c0:f0ff:fe3b:b5b5 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of phma@phma.optus.nu) smtp.mail=phma@phma.optus.nu Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_bar: / Content-Length: 2174 On Monday, October 15, 2012 13:31:16 mashers wrote: > Am I to assume that phonological assimilation should be avoided when > speaking Lojban aloud? Depends on what you're assimilating. Concerning the nasals, /n/ may be=20 assimilated to [=C5=8B] before /g,k,x/, but may not be assimilated to [=C9= =B1] before=20 /f,v/. Contrariwise /m/ may be assimilated before /f,v/, but not before=20 /g,k,x/. (I'm not sure, without looking at it and trying to decode some=20 krokozyabry, whether the refgram mentions [=C9=B1].) fonxa banfi kumfa simxu It's different in Spanish, where "anfibio" is regularly pronounced with [= =C9=B1]; the=20 "nf", which explains the "nf" in "banfi", is just a spelling rule, and ther= e's=20 only one distinct nasal preceding a stop or fricative or at the end of a wo= rd=20 (not counting foreign words). And it's different still in English, which=20 distinguishes three nasals at the end of a word. One must not be too hasty = to=20 be discharged from a hospital, for one would be an impatient inpatient. There are also several allophones of /r/, which I use in different=20 environments. This isn't really assimilation, as there's nothing tap-like= =20 about the two vowels in "flira" or roll-like about the "o" or "s" in "morsi= ". Assimilation of voicing between stops and fricatives does not occur in lujv= o;=20 instead, one sticks the interfix /=C9=99/ () between them. If such a pai= r comes=20 up in a fu'ivla, you can't stick an interfix, but you can assimilate a=20 consonant. The consonant is then written as assimilated. For instance, one= =20 can't say "tcadrvisbadne", but one can say "tcadrvispadne" or "tcadrvizbadn= e". Pierre --=20 When a barnacle settles down, its brain disintegrates. J=C3=A1 n=C3=A3o percebe nada, j=C3=A1 n=C3=A3o percebe nada. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.