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Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Place structure vs. grammatical morphemes
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On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 9:18 AM, mashers <mail@mashley.net> wrote:

>
> On Sunday, 14 October 2012 12:22:20 UTC+1, gleki wrote:
>>
>> I don't understand. If English "to" has multiple meanings then why should
>> Lojban be polysemous just like English?
>>
>
> It absolutely shouldn't. One the most appealing features of Lojban to me
> is that each symbol has only one meaning. My point was not that a symbol
> should represent multiple meanings.
>
>
>> But if you want one morpheme for one meaning of English "to" this is how
>> Lojban already works
>>
>
> But the morphemes aren't spoken, they are implied by the place structure.
> How does this work in practice if a novice has limited knowledge of the
> brivla place structures? And doesn't having to learn the place structure
> for each brivla add more learning load?
>

   Yes, there is a learning load, but as Lindar points out, there is much
regularity, too.  But I just want to say that perhaps you don't realize
that English has exactly same type of place structure load.  Unlike, for
example, Latin, where the function of a word in a sentence is communicated
by word endings or Hebrew which has  a direct object indicator, so that
word order isn't as importnat, English says things like "John gives Jane
the ball".  The role of" John", "Jane", and "the ball" are entirely based
on their position in the sentence, so are implicitly as much a part of
"give' as they are of "dunda".  Lojban just makes these relationships
explicit.  And as someone else pointed out, by loading up brivla with
several places, that means you are also learning the equivalent of many
words for the price of one.  Want to learn how to say the equivalent of the
English "giver", "gift", "receiver"?  Learn just one word "dunda".

         --gejyspa

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at=
 9:18 AM, mashers <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mail@mashley.net"=
 target=3D"_blank">mail@mashley.net</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote cl=
ass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;p=
adding-left:1ex">
<div class=3D"im"><br>On Sunday, 14 October 2012 12:22:20 UTC+1, gleki wrot=
e:=20
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PA=
DDING-LEFT:1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div>I don&#39;t understand. If English &quot;to&quot; has multiple meaning=
s then why should Lojban be polysemous just like English?</div></blockquote=
>
<div>=A0</div>
</div><div>It absolutely shouldn&#39;t. One the most appealing features of =
Lojban to me is that each symbol has only one meaning. My point was not tha=
t a symbol should represent multiple meanings.</div><div class=3D"im">
<div>=A0</div>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PA=
DDING-LEFT:1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div>But if you want one morpheme for one meaning of English &quot;to&quot;=
 this is how Lojban already works</div></blockquote>
<div>=A0</div>
</div><div>But the morphemes aren&#39;t spoken, they are implied by the pla=
ce structure. How does this work in practice if a novice has limited knowle=
dge of the brivla place structures? And doesn&#39;t having to learn the pla=
ce structure for each brivla add more learning load?</div>
</blockquote><div>=A0</div><div>=A0 =A0Yes, there is a learning load, but a=
s Lindar points out, there is much regularity, too. =A0But I just want to s=
ay that perhaps you don&#39;t realize that English has exactly same type of=
 place structure load. =A0Unlike, for example, Latin, where the function of=
 a word in a sentence is communicated by word endings or Hebrew which has =
=A0a direct object indicator, so that word order isn&#39;t as importnat, En=
glish says things like &quot;John gives Jane the ball&quot;. =A0The role of=
&quot; John&quot;, &quot;Jane&quot;, and &quot;the ball&quot; are entirely =
based on their position in the sentence, so are implicitly as much a part o=
f &quot;give&#39; as they are of &quot;dunda&quot;. =A0Lojban just makes th=
ese relationships explicit. =A0And as someone else pointed out, by loading =
up brivla with several places, that means you are also learning the equival=
ent of many words for the price of one. =A0Want to learn how to say the equ=
ivalent of the English &quot;giver&quot;, &quot;gift&quot;, &quot;receiver&=
quot;? =A0Learn just one word &quot;dunda&quot;.=A0</div>
<div><br></div><div>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0--gejyspa</div><div><br></div></div>=
</div>

<p></p>

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/>
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