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Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 22:10:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: ".iocikun.juj." <yoshikuni.jujo@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] I think I can use "kau" to express Japanese
 "ga" and "wa"
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ki'e la tsani
ki'e .asiz.

It's true that "watashi ga/wa iku" are declarations. These are not=20
questions.

I understand that I can use {ba'e}.
{ba'e mi klama} =3D "watashi ga iku"
{mi ba'e klama} =3D "watashi wa iku"

But {ba'e} is vague.
To use kau may be more strict.

I think that listener's knowledge is essential to languages.

{mi djuno lodu'u la djan. kau klama} is "I know that it's John who go".
Listener may know someone goes, but may not know who goes.

It mean:
[Tom go, Jack go, John go ... ] -> [John go]
Before meaning list is narrowed to after meaning list.

I think its essential to language that [before meaning list] is narrowed to=
=20
[after meaning list].
I want to strictly express this narrowing by {kau}.

I want to use {kau} outside {du'u}.
It's good that I can say following.

la djan. kau klama
(You know that someone goes. I inform you that it's John who goes)

And I can do ordering more strictly.

{mi viska da gi'e da prami ko} is "Please show me the person who loves you"=
=20
or "Please be loved by the person who I see".
And {mi viska kau da gi'e da prami ko} is "Please show me the person who=20
loves you".
[I don't see X and X loves you, I see X and X loves you ... ] -> [I see X=
=20
and X loves you]
And {mi viska da gi'e da prami kau ko} is "Please be loved by the person=20
who I see".
[I see X and X don't loves you, I see X and X loves you ...] -> [I see X=20
and X loves you]

I want you to understand "before meaning list".
I don't know that this expression is appropriate.
And the idea is essential to languages, isn't it?

2012=E5=B9=B410=E6=9C=8812=E6=97=A5=E9=87=91=E6=9B=9C=E6=97=A5 13=E6=99=821=
3=E5=88=8618=E7=A7=92 UTC+9 .asiz.:
>
> On 12 October 2012 00:16, Jacob Errington <nict...@gmail.com <javascript:=
>>=20
> wrote:=20
> > {.i do xu klama} "Is it you who goes?" (as opposed to someone else)=20
> > {.i do klama xu} "Are you *going*?" (as opposed to doing something else=
)=20
> >=20
>
> I understood that "watashi ga/wa iku" are declarations, not questions...=
=20
>
> In any case, it is relevant to point that, in the case of yes/no=20
> questions,=20
> the non-initial position of {xu} marks the preceding element as a focus=
=20
> of the question, no doubt or debate on that.=20
>
> In other words, if {kau} marked the focus of sentences in general,=20
> the following pairs could be considered equivalent.=20
> {.i do xu klama} ~ {.i xu do kau klama}=20
> {.i do klama xu} ~ {.i xu do klama kau}=20
>
> mu'o=20
> mi'e .asiz.=20
>
> > On 11 October 2012 17:21, .iocikun.juj. <yoshiku...@gmail.com<javascrip=
t:>>=20
> wrote:=20
> >> English "I go" is "watashi ga iku" or "watashi wa iku" in Japanese.=20
>

--=20
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ki'e la tsani<br>ki'e .asiz.<br><br>It's true that "watashi ga/wa iku" are =
declarations. These are not questions.<br><br>I understand that I can use {=
ba'e}.<br>{ba'e mi klama} =3D "watashi ga iku"<br>{mi ba'e klama} =3D "wata=
shi wa iku"<br><br>But {ba'e} is vague.<br>To use kau may be more strict.<b=
r><br>I think that listener's knowledge is essential to languages.<br><br>{=
mi djuno lodu'u la djan. kau klama} is "I know that it's John who go".<br>L=
istener may know someone goes, but may not know who goes.<br><br>It mean:<b=
r>[Tom go, Jack go, John go ... ] -&gt; [John go]<br>Before meaning list is=
 narrowed to after meaning list.<br><br>I think its essential to language t=
hat [before meaning list] is narrowed to [after meaning list].<br>I want to=
 strictly express this narrowing by {kau}.<br><br>I want to use {kau} outsi=
de {du'u}.<br>It's good that I can say following.<br><br>la djan. kau klama=
<br>(You know that someone goes. I inform you that it's John who goes)<br><=
br>And I can do ordering more strictly.<br><br>{mi viska da gi'e da prami k=
o} is "Please show me the person who loves you" or "Please be loved by the =
person who I see".<br>And {mi viska kau da gi'e da prami ko} is "Please sho=
w me the person who loves you".<br>[I don't see X and X loves you, I see X =
and X loves you ... ] -&gt; [I see X and X loves you]<br>And {mi viska da g=
i'e da prami kau ko} is "Please be loved by the person who I see".<br>[I se=
e X and X don't loves you, I see X and X loves you ...] -&gt; [I see X and =
X loves you]<br><br>I want you to understand "before meaning list".<br>I do=
n't know that this expression is appropriate.<br>And the idea is essential =
to languages, isn't it?<br><br>2012=E5=B9=B410=E6=9C=8812=E6=97=A5=E9=87=91=
=E6=9B=9C=E6=97=A5 13=E6=99=8213=E5=88=8618=E7=A7=92 UTC+9 .asiz.:<blockquo=
te class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left:=
 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">On 12 October 2012 00:16, Jacob Erringt=
on &lt;<a href=3D"javascript:" target=3D"_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto=3D"s=
qS5gUONmM4J">nict...@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:
<br>&gt; {.i do xu klama} "Is it you who goes?" (as opposed to someone else=
)
<br>&gt; {.i do klama xu} "Are you *going*?" (as opposed to doing something=
 else)
<br>&gt;
<br>
<br>I understood that "watashi ga/wa iku" are declarations, not questions..=
.
<br>
<br>In any case, it is relevant to point that, in the case of yes/no questi=
ons,
<br>the non-initial position of {xu} marks the preceding element as a focus
<br>of the question, no doubt or debate on that.
<br>
<br>In other words, if {kau} marked the focus of sentences in general,
<br>the following pairs could be considered equivalent.
<br>{.i do xu klama} ~ {.i xu do kau klama}
<br>{.i do klama xu} ~ {.i xu do klama kau}
<br>
<br>mu'o
<br>mi'e .asiz.
<br>
<br>&gt; On 11 October 2012 17:21, .iocikun.juj. &lt;<a href=3D"javascript:=
" target=3D"_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto=3D"sqS5gUONmM4J">yoshiku...@gmail=
.com</a>&gt; wrote:
<br>&gt;&gt; English "I go" is "watashi ga iku" or "watashi wa iku" in Japa=
nese.
<br></blockquote>

<p></p>

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