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Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Place structure vs. grammatical morphemes
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On Sunday, October 14, 2012 2:35:55 PM UTC+4, mashers wrote:
>
>
> On Saturday, 13 October 2012 20:44:17 UTC+1, .asiz. wrote: 
>>
>> The roles _exist_? What is the role of dunda3? Is it the same as the one 
>> of 
>> klama2, as suggested by the English preposition "to", or is it the same 
>> as 
>> the role of xamgu2, as suggested by the use of the dative in Latin? In 
>> other 
>> words, is it like the destination of a movement or the beneficiary of an 
>> act? 
>>
>> Also, what are the roles of pritu{1,2,3}? 
>
>  
> I posted this earlier but it didn't appear. Apologies if it appears twice.
>  
> Yes the roles exist, but I didn't mean to imply any overlap between them. 
> That's why I said previously that a more complete set of morphemes would be 
> required if you wanted to speficy them explicity. So the English concept 
> "to" would be broken down into multiple morphemes, each of which expressing 
> one of the concepts expressed by the English "to". (I'm referring to 
> English only as an example. Of course, the actual morphemes required would 
> reflect the possible concepts which could be expressed within the 
> environment, rather than within other languages.)
>

I don't understand. If English "to" has multiple meanings then why should 
Lojban be polysemous just like English?
But if you want one morpheme for one meaning of English "to" this is how 
Lojban already works.

There are also short forms of predicates. e.g. {seka'a} is kinda 
preposition that corresponds to the target of movement, roughly it's 
English "to". However, it's better to call such prepositions with a 
Lojbanic term "sumtcita" to avoid references to ambiguous western terms.

I must also note that {fa'a} that denotes direction of a vector and also 
roughly corresponds to English "to/towards" can be used in many cases.

However, in "I give this TO you" and "I go TO you" the word TO may not 
always denote the same relation. Therefore, {fa'a} is not a universal cure.

And lastly, I suggest learning Lojban, become fluent in it. Then we can 
talk about such things in Lojban itself. :)

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<br><br>On Sunday, October 14, 2012 2:35:55 PM UTC+4, mashers wrote:<blockq=
uote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-lef=
t: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><br>On Saturday, 13 October 2012 20:4=
4:17 UTC+1, .asiz. wrote:=20
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PA=
DDING-LEFT:1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">The roles _exist_? What is the role o=
f dunda3? Is it the same as the one of <br>klama2, as suggested by the Engl=
ish preposition "to", or is it the same as <br>the role of xamgu2, as sugge=
sted by the use of the dative in Latin? In other <br>words, is it like the =
destination of a movement or the beneficiary of an act? <br><br>Also, what =
are the roles of pritu{1,2,3}? </blockquote>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>I posted this earlier but it didn't appear. Apologies if it appears tw=
ice.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Yes the roles exist, but I didn't mean to imply any overlap between th=
em. That's why I said previously that a more complete set of morphemes woul=
d be required if you wanted to speficy them explicity. So the English conce=
pt "to" would be broken down into multiple morphemes, each of which express=
ing one of the concepts expressed by the English "to". (I'm referring to En=
glish only as an example. Of course, the actual morphemes required would re=
flect the possible concepts which could be expressed within the environment=
, rather than within other languages.)</div></blockquote><div><br></div><di=
v>I don't understand. If English "to" has multiple meanings then why should=
 Lojban be polysemous just like English?</div><div>But if you want one morp=
heme for one meaning of English "to" this is how Lojban already works.</div=
><div><br></div><div>There are also short forms of predicates. e.g. {seka'a=
} is kinda preposition that corresponds to the target of movement, roughly =
it's English "to". However, it's better to call such prepositions with a Lo=
jbanic term "sumtcita" to avoid references to ambiguous western terms.</div=
><div><br></div><div>I must also note that {fa'a} that denotes direction of=
 a vector and also roughly corresponds to English "to/towards" can be used =
in many cases.</div><div><br></div><div>However, in "I give this TO you" an=
d "I go TO you" the word TO may not always denote the same relation. Theref=
ore, {fa'a} is not a universal cure.</div><div><br></div><div>And lastly, I=
 suggest learning Lojban, become fluent in it. Then we can talk about such =
things in Lojban itself. :)</div>

<p></p>

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ojban-beginners/-/-tNJWkM9fqsJ</a>.<br />=20
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.<br =
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