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Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Place structure vs. grammatical morphemes
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On Sunday, 14 October 2012 14:36:12 UTC+1, gleki wrote:
>
> How can you learn Spanish/Japanese/whatever if you speak  English?
>

Well, the same way I learn any language - by studying the phonology, 
vocabulary and grammar. Lojban is no different in that respect :)
 

> The place structure of lojban is pretty clear. Even it's definition 
> describe all places.
> This is usually not the case in textbooks of other languages.
>

Oh I didn't mean to suggest that Lojban was in any way unclear. As I said 
in my first post, I love the regularity of the language and the fact that 
it's so well documented.
 

> You have to figure out how prepositions/case-markers/whatever work in any 
> language.
> In the case of lojban there is dictionary and a textbook (only in English 
> yet).
>

The literature on Lojban is definitely invaluable. I'm just getting my head 
around the grammar, and my main point really is that the place structure 
requires one to learn not just the label of the brivla, but also the 
positions of all of its sumti. My dyslexia is making it tricky for me to 
learn all of this information related to one symbol, and in my current 
mindset a set of morphemes which could (potentially) apply to any symbol 
would be easier as it would create more overlap (i.e. the morphemes could 
be learned once and then applied to any other symbol). I'm still playing on 
Memrise and am finding that I'm learning the vocabulary, but the place 
structure of the brivla is still not sticking in my memory (although I can 
remember the brivla's name (if that is the correct term)).
 

> Lojban is the most flexible language I've ever met. So I wanna use both 
> sumtcita and brivla. They just look like different styles of Lojban.
>

Do you think that they might emerge as different [pragmatic] styles? E.g. 
one a formal tone and another less formal?
 

> Believe me (I'm not a fanatic of Lojban), if you learn Lojban then 
> understanding the syntax of other  languages will be much easier.
>

I've read that in the Lojban literature. Could you provide some insight 
into how this works practically? Lojban grammar is unlike any I've come 
across before, so I'm interested to learn how its principles can be applied 
when learning natural languages. 

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<br><br>On Sunday, 14 October 2012 14:36:12 UTC+1, gleki  wrote:<blockquote=
 class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1=
px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div>How can you learn Spanish/Japanese/w=
hatever if you speak &nbsp;English?<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><d=
iv>Well, the same way I learn any language - by studying the phonology, voc=
abulary and grammar. Lojban is no different in that respect :)</div><div>&n=
bsp;</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left:=
 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div></div><div>The =
place structure of lojban is pretty clear. Even it's definition describe al=
l places.<br></div><div>This is usually not the case in textbooks of other =
languages.</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Oh I didn't mean to sugges=
t that Lojban was in any way unclear. As I said in my first post, I love th=
e regularity of the language and the fact that it's so well documented.</di=
v><div>&nbsp;</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;mar=
gin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div>You ha=
ve to figure out how prepositions/case-markers/<wbr>whatever work in any la=
nguage.</div><div>In the case of lojban there is dictionary and a textbook =
(only in English yet).</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>The literature=
 on Lojban is definitely invaluable. I'm just getting my head around the gr=
ammar, and my main point really is that the place structure requires one to=
 learn not just the label of the brivla, but also the positions of all of i=
ts sumti. My dyslexia is making it tricky for me to learn all of this infor=
mation related to one symbol, and in my current mindset a set of morphemes =
which could (potentially) apply to any symbol would be easier as it would c=
reate more overlap (i.e. the morphemes could be learned once and then appli=
ed to any other symbol). I'm still playing on Memrise and am finding that I=
'm learning the vocabulary, but the place structure of the brivla is still =
not sticking in my memory (although I can remember the brivla's name (if th=
at is the correct term)).</div><div>&nbsp;</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_=
quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;pa=
dding-left: 1ex;"><div>Lojban is the most flexible language I've ever met. =
So I wanna use both sumtcita and brivla. They just look like different styl=
es of Lojban.</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Do you think that they =
might emerge as different [pragmatic] styles? E.g. one a formal tone and an=
other less formal?</div><div>&nbsp;</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" =
style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-l=
eft: 1ex;"><div>Believe me (I'm not a fanatic of Lojban), if you learn Lojb=
an then understanding the syntax of other &nbsp;languages will be much easi=
er.<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I've read that in the Lojban =
literature. Could you provide some insight into how this works practically?=
 Lojban grammar is unlike any I've come across before, so I'm interested to=
 learn how its principles can be applied when learning natural languages.&n=
bsp;</div>

<p></p>

-- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
Lojban Beginners" group.<br />
To view this discussion on the web visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.c=
om/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/MbXGBSdbukoJ">https://groups.google.com/d/msg/l=
ojban-beginners/-/MbXGBSdbukoJ</a>.<br />=20
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.<br =
/>
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@=
googlegroups.com.<br />

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban=
-beginners?hl=3Den.<br />



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