Received: from mail-ie0-f189.google.com ([209.85.223.189]:55083)
	by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128)
	(Exim 4.76)
	(envelope-from <lojban-beginners+bncBDL7ZJGPTMGBBP4J2OCAKGQEYE3BIWY@googlegroups.com>)
	id 1TUXxv-0003IG-23; Sat, 03 Nov 2012 00:16:28 -0700
Received: by mail-ie0-f189.google.com with SMTP id c10sf2870874ieb.16
        for <multiple recipients>; Sat, 03 Nov 2012 00:16:16 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806;
        h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references
         :date:message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender
         :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list
         :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive
         :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type;
        bh=iR8hyDbfxQl098/1FwK4P41+s4+mvfYe2Byncf78gpw=;
        b=trLcyTTwZrdoP9mehKbkHmC9skcL5xmcbtDGQk9UEcm1a5ai4iEc4IbyGmtHWW7dKm
         yb6KEFTH/hN1CKfdDvmK+YWaCWZpP98jsVdbUpbqcuQmPOIMJLQ7/hHjlRUpG3znl2eR
         qSDzdk9yHryhCRComfOg23gUZn8Q/DvSsxaCY6pfr92q6xPD45YKOPJJyXu9KRZh9zD9
         PYKPnoBlRsNadNyS89ewZPr9RKeZYzyacrczcbeQP0XSLs3buv7S3qXphpy1HQN3iTkp
         gFWZ5r8llaa+2izvESOHQenaLYsiHFOtiLAoPMxg0/uzV9D6ttQhtCqFQsro+pKIjobj
         0qGA==
Received: by 10.52.91.109 with SMTP id cd13mr745702vdb.15.1351926976137;
        Sat, 03 Nov 2012 00:16:16 -0700 (PDT)
X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Received: by 10.221.10.72 with SMTP id oz8ls4274896vcb.5.gmail; Sat, 03 Nov
 2012 00:16:15 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.58.210.198 with SMTP id mw6mr1403691vec.22.1351926975818;
        Sat, 03 Nov 2012 00:16:15 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.58.210.198 with SMTP id mw6mr1403690vec.22.1351926975809;
        Sat, 03 Nov 2012 00:16:15 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-vc0-f169.google.com (mail-vc0-f169.google.com [209.85.220.169])
        by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id dj17si1638147vdb.1.2012.11.03.00.16.15
        (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER);
        Sat, 03 Nov 2012 00:16:15 -0700 (PDT)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of paskios@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.169 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.220.169;
Received: by mail-vc0-f169.google.com with SMTP id fl17so4341197vcb.28
        for <lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com>; Sat, 03 Nov 2012 00:16:15 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.58.200.39 with SMTP id jp7mr4132909vec.26.1351926975609; Sat,
 03 Nov 2012 00:16:15 -0700 (PDT)
Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Received: by 10.58.15.129 with HTTP; Sat, 3 Nov 2012 00:16:15 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <80e59291-ef2d-4309-96cc-6e34f13f962e@googlegroups.com>
References: <80e59291-ef2d-4309-96cc-6e34f13f962e@googlegroups.com>
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2012 07:16:15 +0000
Message-ID: <CAPAJj9JXPbRR7vXFf4QoUa+WUFUYEuO6W24KzqvgweSHPMN+zQ@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] {ja'e} vs {seri'a}, {semu'i} &c.
From: tijlan <jbotijlan@gmail.com>
To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
X-Original-Sender: paskios@gmail.com
X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com:
 domain of paskios@gmail.com designates 209.85.220.169 as permitted sender)
 smtp.mail=paskios@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com
Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <lojban-beginners.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892
List-Post: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/post?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <http://groups.google.com/support/?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban-beginners+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en_US>
List-Subscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/subscribe?hl=en_US>,
 <mailto:lojban-beginners+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/subscribe?hl=en_US>,
 <mailto:googlegroups-manage+300742228892+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/)
X-Spam_score: -0.7
X-Spam_score_int: -6
X-Spam_bar: /
Content-Length: 1168

On 2 November 2012 17:34, mudri <jammyatjammy@gmail.com> wrote:
> Can someone explain {ja'e} to me, and why I shouldn't use one of the "because" modals in its place?

{ja'e} comes from {jalge}, which says that x1 is an outcome of x2,
without specifying the nature of "because". {ja'e ___} refers to the
consequence; use {se ja'e ___} for the antecedent.

{ri'a}, {mu'i}, {ki'u}, {ni'i} ... are more specific. Also their x1 &
x2 are the inverse of {ja'e}'s; it's {ri'a ___}, not {se ri'a ___},
that refers to the antecedent.

You can replace {se ja'e} with a more specific modal:

  lo bloti cu spofu se ja'e lo nu janli
  The ship is broken, from (as a result of) the collision.

  lo bloti cu spofu ri'a lo nu janli
  The ship is broken, physically from (as a physical effect of) the collision.


mu'o

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.