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From: mudri <jammyatjammy@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: ma xe fanva zoi gy Countless stars were
 twinkling in the sky gy
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 Content preview:  Still, it's a bit strange that the "Pure-Lojban" definition
    of {so'a} is {namcu .i se zilkancu lo muljbi}. Actually, I'm a bit confused
    as to what that means: "a near to complete thing is the non-existent counter".
    And, as far as I've learnt, {zi'o} isn't a mere "imaginary" - it effectively
    says that the bridi is false (due to denying the existence of one of the
   things it was predicated on). .uanai [...] 
 
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Still, it's a bit strange that the "Pure-Lojban" definition of {so'a} is=20
{namcu .i se zilkancu lo muljbi}. Actually, I'm a bit confused as to what=
=20
that means: "a near to complete thing is the non-existent counter". And, as=
=20
far as I've learnt, {zi'o} isn't a mere "imaginary" - it effectively says=
=20
that the bridi is false (due to denying the existence of one of the things=
=20
it was predicated on). .uanai

On Sunday, 25 November 2012 00:27:11 UTC, aionys wrote:
>
> On Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 2:53 PM, ianek <jan...@gmail.com <javascript:>>wr=
ote:
>
>> It isn't infinite, but I used {ci'i} as a hyperbole. Maybe {so'iso'i}
>> or something would be good, but it doesn't sound very serious. BTW,
>> {so'e} and {so'a} are defined as 'most' and 'almost all', but it
>> doesn't make much sense since 1. they fit in the {so'V} sequence of
>> imprecise numerals and the other three do not refer to being a part of
>> something, 2. there are compounds {piso'e} and {piso'a} and they mean
>> 'most of' and 'almost all of', which for me is the same.
>>
>> What I mean is: the sequence is decrementing imprecise numerals:
>> {so'a}, {so'e}, {so'i}, {so'o}, {so'u}. But if translated according to
>> definitions in jbovlaste, they don't work like that: "many stars" may
>> mean arbitrarily many stars, while "most stars" would mean that
>> there's some set of stars and we're talking about a majority of them.
>> Completely other thing. And if we want to say that, we might as well
>> use {piso'e}: "most of the stars" and it would mean the same. So, as
>> for me, {so'e} and {so'a}, as defined in jbovlaste, are inconsistent
>> with the rest of this series.
>>
>> I may be, and probably am very wrong about all this, but there goes my
>> rant. I'd like to be able to use {so'e tarci} for 'lots of stars' and
>> {so'a tarci} for 'uncountable stars'. Only that I'm not sure why
>> "decimal point lots" would then mean "most", ie. more than half. Oh
>> well.
>>
>
> It's more that the English definitions of the words are flawed:
>
> ro > so'a > so'e > so'i > so'o > so'u > no
>
> pa > piso'a > piso'e > piso'i >piso'o > piso'i > no
>
> piso'e > pimu > piso'o
>
> Because these numbers are imprecise, it's obviously not possible to give=
=20
> specific numeric inequalities to them beyond the above, and even then,=20
> there may be cases where two or more overlap with each other.
> =20
>
>>  mu'o mi'e ianek
>>
>> On 24 Lis, 22:12, Pierre Abbat <p...@bezitopo.org> wrote:
>> > On Saturday, November 24, 2012 11:26:33 ianek wrote:
>> > > I'd try to translate it as {ci'i tarci pu carmi bu'u lo tsani}, but =
I
>> > > may be very wrong. There's no simple word for twinkle, flicker or
>> > > blink.
>> >
>> > I'd say {kliniota} for "blink", but that probably wouldn't be=20
>> understood by a
>> > non-French-speaker. A possible word for "twinkle" is {camdesku}.
>> >
>> > The number of stars isn't infinite, it's just too many for humans to=
=20
>> count. You
>> > could say {ni'e bacterkancu}, but that's a bit long.
>> >
>> > Pierre
>> > --
>> > When a barnacle settles down, its brain disintegrates.
>> > J=E1 n=E3o percebe nada, j=E1 n=E3o percebe nada.
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group=
s=20
>> "Lojban Beginners" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-b...@googlegroups.com<javasc=
ript:>
>> .
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to=20
>> lojban-beginne...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>.
>> For more options, visit this group at=20
>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.
>>
>>
>
>
> --=20
> mu'o mi'e .aionys.
>
> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
>
>

--=20
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To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lo=
jban-beginners/-/YtB1D7AeI7MJ.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
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Still, it's a bit strange that the "Pure-Lojban" definition of {so'a} is {n=
amcu .i se zilkancu lo muljbi}. Actually, I'm a bit confused as to what tha=
t means: "a near to complete thing is the non-existent counter". And, as fa=
r as I've learnt, {zi'o} isn't a mere "imaginary" - it effectively says tha=
t the bridi is false (due to denying the existence of one of the things it =
was predicated on). .uanai<br><br>On Sunday, 25 November 2012 00:27:11 UTC,=
 aionys  wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-=
left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div class=3D"g=
mail_quote">On Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 2:53 PM, ianek <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a=
 href=3D"javascript:" target=3D"_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto=3D"oUaP-o1zHi=
8J">jan...@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex=
">
It isn't infinite, but I used {ci'i} as a hyperbole. Maybe {so'iso'i}<br>
or something would be good, but it doesn't sound very serious. BTW,<br>
{so'e} and {so'a} are defined as 'most' and 'almost all', but it<br>
doesn't make much sense since 1. they fit in the {so'V} sequence of<br>
imprecise numerals and the other three do not refer to being a part of<br>
something, 2. there are compounds {piso'e} and {piso'a} and they mean<br>
'most of' and 'almost all of', which for me is the same.<br>
<br>
What I mean is: the sequence is decrementing imprecise numerals:<br>
{so'a}, {so'e}, {so'i}, {so'o}, {so'u}. But if translated according to<br>
definitions in jbovlaste, they don't work like that: "many stars" may<br>
mean arbitrarily many stars, while "most stars" would mean that<br>
there's some set of stars and we're talking about a majority of them.<br>
Completely other thing. And if we want to say that, we might as well<br>
use {piso'e}: "most of the stars" and it would mean the same. So, as<br>
for me, {so'e} and {so'a}, as defined in jbovlaste, are inconsistent<br>
with the rest of this series.<br>
<br>
I may be, and probably am very wrong about all this, but there goes my<br>
rant. I'd like to be able to use {so'e tarci} for 'lots of stars' and<br>
{so'a tarci} for 'uncountable stars'. Only that I'm not sure why<br>
"decimal point lots" would then mean "most", ie. more than half. Oh<br>
well.<br></blockquote><div><br>It's more that the English definitions of th=
e words are flawed:<br><br>ro &gt; so'a &gt; so'e &gt; so'i &gt; so'o &gt; =
so'u &gt; no<br><br>pa &gt; piso'a &gt; piso'e &gt; piso'i &gt;piso'o &gt; =
piso'i &gt; no<br>
<br>piso'e &gt; pimu &gt; piso'o<br><br>Because these numbers are imprecise=
, it's obviously not possible to give specific numeric inequalities to them=
 beyond the above, and even then, there may be cases where two or more over=
lap with each other.<br>
&nbsp;</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bo=
rder-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
mu'o mi'e ianek<br>
<br>
</div><div><div>On 24 Lis, 22:12, Pierre Abbat &lt;<a>p...@bezitopo.org</a>=
&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; On Saturday, November 24, 2012 11:26:33 ianek wrote:<br>
&gt; &gt; I'd try to translate it as {ci'i tarci pu carmi bu'u lo tsani}, b=
ut I<br>
&gt; &gt; may be very wrong. There's no simple word for twinkle, flicker or=
<br>
&gt; &gt; blink.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I'd say {kliniota} for "blink", but that probably wouldn't be understo=
od by a<br>
&gt; non-French-speaker. A possible word for "twinkle" is {camdesku}.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; The number of stars isn't infinite, it's just too many for humans to c=
ount. You<br>
&gt; could say {ni'e bacterkancu}, but that's a bit long.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Pierre<br>
&gt; --<br>
&gt; When a barnacle settles down, its brain disintegrates.<br>
&gt; J=E1 n=E3o percebe nada, j=E1 n=E3o percebe nada.<br>
<br>
--<br>
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
Lojban Beginners" group.<br>
To post to this group, send email to <a href=3D"javascript:" target=3D"_bla=
nk" gdf-obfuscated-mailto=3D"oUaP-o1zHi8J">lojban-b...@googlegroups.<wbr>co=
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To unsubscribe from this group, send email to <a href=3D"javascript:" targe=
t=3D"_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto=3D"oUaP-o1zHi8J">lojban-beginne...@<wbr>=
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For more options, visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/g=
roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den" target=3D"_blank">http://groups.google.com/<=
wbr>group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den</a>.<br>
<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>mu'o mi'e .=
aionys.<br><br>.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu=
 do zo'o<br>(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )<br>
<br>
</blockquote>

<p></p>

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