Received: from mail-yh0-f61.google.com ([209.85.213.61]:59243) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1Td4NR-0006Tf-RR; Mon, 26 Nov 2012 11:30:09 -0800 Received: by mail-yh0-f61.google.com with SMTP id o21sf7018210yho.16 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2012 11:29:51 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=EJI5kndhMGJSO/1brg8DVOBOgb116MlE5s9F/6/P+rs=; b=BRgGGE7QvvPFh/UgCm+Mye0PL35RLtp4H+rA56MUr5Y845Recnydb0S+1AF3VarIK1 HSNaRsOf2DYxLi0vCw+RrXSf3YMWODkRYfh1856Uwmc8xqGj+tFhWH9kp5iv7cCEl/AV AMfpWuayN6+PgFdjF8OIRTBC78wfNsNbBu5xSN/FMpeVtQaAc8ACeUan8XSiJ7a9vddl 8zlfbrDvPIkxNgTzdcoQ8bVrA2XhYO4oGc2mpd2eb28Z5V0t74lfA40jGfl6w4UTNIBp k0oluNmt/bklAHt241tyebZ5lLoEB3GZ7FYRBZb462Prcl5BAiYcpbouVx1u4X8nc39+ SwDw== Received: by 10.50.11.196 with SMTP id s4mr5110000igb.9.1353958190769; Mon, 26 Nov 2012 11:29:50 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.50.17.201 with SMTP id q9ls3289749igd.26.canary; Mon, 26 Nov 2012 11:29:49 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.66.90.8 with SMTP id bs8mr3430220pab.24.1353958189923; Mon, 26 Nov 2012 11:29:49 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.66.90.8 with SMTP id bs8mr3430219pab.24.1353958189908; Mon, 26 Nov 2012 11:29:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pb0-f54.google.com (mail-pb0-f54.google.com [209.85.160.54]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id m8si3006250pav.2.2012.11.26.11.29.49 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 26 Nov 2012 11:29:49 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.160.54 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.160.54; Received: by mail-pb0-f54.google.com with SMTP id wz12so10161283pbc.27 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2012 11:29:49 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.68.238.199 with SMTP id vm7mr39912150pbc.105.1353958189797; Mon, 26 Nov 2012 11:29:49 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.68.197.3 with HTTP; Mon, 26 Nov 2012 11:29:49 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <1aeeea0e-aea5-4faa-9036-bea624f165b4@googlegroups.com> Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2012 14:29:49 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: memrise simplified gismu {dukse} vs {zmadu} definition From: Michael Turniansky To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: mturniansky@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.160.54 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=mturniansky@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b33c78cf1903404cf6af473 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / Content-Length: 9879 --047d7b33c78cf1903404cf6af473 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Simply speaking, jibni is the antonym of darno, while simsa is the antonym of frica. Generally speaking, Jonathan is right, in that the meanings of jibni and simsa are quite close, (or we might say "zo jibni cu simsa zo jibni lo ka smuni ce'u"), as are darno to frica. This is because the existence x3 argument gives you freedom to play with how two things are "similar" or "close". I would say that, to an native English speaker at least, without a third argument being explicitly mentioned, jibni and darno are usually thought of as comparing distances or time or quantity, while simsa and frica would be other scales. But maybe that's just me. --gejyspa On Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 4:25 AM, Jonathan Jones wrote: > On Fri, Nov 23, 2012 at 5:11 PM, mudri wrote: > >> Can I add something? I notice that {jibni} has been given a simplified >> translation that reads something like "similar, close in properties". For a >> while, I guessed at {simsa}, since it seems to fit that translation >> remarkably well (better, if I've not misunderstood). In fact, what is the >> difference between these two? > > > The full definitions are almost exactly the same, too, which is why my > simplied definition (the ones used in Memrise) are so close. The words are > almost exactly the same in meaning. > > From the notes (in simsa), I'd say that two Golden Delicious apples can be > both simsa and jibni, a picture (or painting) is simsa (assuming it's of > something that exists in real life, like a landscape or still life), and a > length of string which is .01 cm shorter than another string is jibni. > > On Tuesday, 14 August 2012 12:40:40 UTC+1, kamisori wrote: >> >>> Hello, i have quite alot trouble keeping those two apart. >>> I propose to change {zmadu}s definition to "x1 is more than or exceeds >>> x2 in x3 by amount x4" hereby it would be easier to memorise its meaning, >>> because to me the similarity of "x1 exceeds or is more than x2 in x3 by >>> amount x4" to "x1 is an excess of x2 by standard x3" is hindering my >>> learning effort. >>> >>> What do you guys think? >>> >>> .u'i On the other hand, of course i could simply try to read the >>> definition more carefully, but due to the timers i always feel like i'm in >>> a hurry... >>> >>> mlatu >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Lojban Beginners" group. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/tCQu1VenSFwJ. >> >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >> > > > > -- > mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --047d7b33c78cf1903404cf6af473 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=A0 =A0Simply speaking, =A0jibni is the antonym of darno, = while simsa is the antonym of frica. Generally speaking, Jonathan is right,= in that the meanings of jibni and simsa are quite close, (or we might say = "zo jibni cu simsa zo jibni lo ka smuni ce'u"), as are darno = to frica. =A0This is because the existence =A0x3 argument gives you freedom= to play with how two things are "similar" or "close". = =A0I would say that, to an native English speaker at least, without a third= argument being explicitly mentioned, jibni and darno are usually thought o= f as comparing distances or time or quantity, while simsa and frica would b= e other scales. =A0But maybe that's just me.

=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0-= -gejyspa

On Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 4:25 AM,= Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, Nov 23, 2012 at 5:= 11 PM, mudri <jammyatjammy@gmail.com> wrote:
Can I add something? I notice that {jibni} has been given a simplified tran= slation that reads something like "similar, close in properties".= For a while, I guessed at {simsa}, since it seems to fit that translation = remarkably well (better, if I've not misunderstood). In fact, what is t= he difference between these two?

The full definitions are almost exactly the same,= too, which is why my simplied definition (the ones used in Memrise) are so= close. The words are almost exactly the same in meaning.

From the notes (in simsa), I'd say that two Golden Delicious apple= s can be both simsa and jibni, a picture (or painting) is simsa (assuming i= t's of something that exists in real life, like a landscape or still li= fe), and a length of string which is .01 cm shorter than another string is = jibni.

On Tuesday, 14 August 20= 12 12:40:40 UTC+1, kamisori wrote:
Hello, i have quite alot trouble keeping those two apart.
I propose to = change {zmadu}s definition to "x1 is more than or exceeds x2 in x3 by = amount x4" hereby it would be easier to memorise its meaning, because = to me the similarity of "x1 exceeds or is more than x2 in x3 by amount= x4" to=A0"x1 is an excess of x2 by standard x3" is hinderin= g my learning effort.

What do you guys think?

.u'= ;i On the other hand, of course i could simply try to read the definition m= ore carefully, but due to the timers i always feel like i'm in a hurry.= ..

mlatu

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=20 To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
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--
mu'o mi'e .aio= nys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patf= u do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )


--
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To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
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For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/g= roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.

--
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