How can pronouns be so complicated= that you have to have a whole chapter on them?

Sent from my iPod

On Nov 26, 2012, at 1:18 PM, Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:

<= /div>

And there are e= ven more, that haven't been mentioned in this discussion, like ri, ra and r= u, (basically the most recently mentioned thing, something mentioned furthe= r back, and something even further back) vo'a, vo'e, vo'i, vo'o, and vo'u (= the first through fifth sumti associated with the main bridi in this uttera= nce), ti, ta, tu, ("pointing" indicators to things in the real world -- thi= s, that, that over yonder), ways to refer to the sentences you are actually= saying, etc. Refer to chapter 7 of the grammar for the complet= e list and details. The equivalent of pronouns in lojban are complicated en= ough to warrant an entire chapter.

--gejyspa

On Sa= t, Nov 24, 2012 at 6:43 PM, Remo Dentato <rdentato@gmail.com> wrote:
There are even more than ten. The point is that our pronouns we use are hig= hly ambigous.

If I say: "Sam met Mark. He was sad" who is the sad o= ne? You can't tell.

In Lojban you can assign a pro-sumti to make thi= s explicit:

if Sam was the sad one: { la .sem. goi ko'a penmi la .mark. .i ko'a bad= ri }
if Mark was the sad one: { la .sem. penmi la .mark. goi ko'a .i ko= 'a badri }

Once assigned, {ko'a} will always have the same referent= unless it is reassigned.

But you can also simply use the first letter of the sumti as a pro-sumt= i:

{ la .sam. penmi la .mark. i sy. badri }
{ la .sam. penmi la = .mark. i my. badri }

The rule here is that a letter refers with the= last sumti that started with that letter.

You can also assign letters, in which case they retain their referent t= hroughout the text. If you say:

{ la .sam. goi sy. penmi la .mark. }=

the letter {sy} will always refer to Sam in the following text.
It is subject to discussion whether using an unassigned pro-sumti is to= be considered "good Lojban" or not.

If you structure your Lojban s= entences carefully, you'll see that you won't need the third person much.
For example:
{ la .sam. poi badri cu penmi la .mark. }

On Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 11:45 PM, Annie= <park.annie@asb.gaggle.net> wrote:

How can there possibl= y be ten thirdcomperson prosumti? Do they all mean he, she, it, or they, or= is there some hidden meanings I didn't know about? What are the actual wor= ds?a

Sent from my iPod

On Nov 24, 2012, at 4:34 PM, = Jonathan Jones <e= yeonus@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 3:08 PM, ianek <ja= nek37@gmail.com> wrote:
Unless I'm wrong, {lo mi kumfa} and {lo kumfa pe mi} have exactly the
same meaning.

They do. {lo mi kumfa} is literally = just shorthand for {lo kumfa pe mi}.

There are also other ways, but those listed by remod are the most
important.
And, you misspelled "sumti" as "su,ti". No need to confuse Annie more
than necessary (zo'o)
Capital V in {ko'V} and {fo'V} means any vowel of a, e, i, o, u
(there's a total of ten third person pro-sumti, not counting
letterals).

mu'o mi'e ianek

On 24 Lis, 22:36, Remo Dentato <rdent...@gmail.com> wrote:
> For possessive you have many option.
>
> 1. using {pe} to indicate an association: "my room (where I sleep)" -&= gt; { lo
> kumfa pe mi }
> 2. using {po} to indicate possession: "my room (that I own)" -> &nb= sp;{ lo kumfa
> po mi }
> 3. using one of the personal pro-sumti: "my room (in an unspecified se= nse"
> -> { lo mi kunfa }
> 4. using the dedicated su,ti place like in "my father" -> { lo patf= u be mi }
>
> The role of pronouns is played, in Lojban, by the pro-sumti. Not= e that
> they are not exactly the same! It's better not to try to translate Eng= lish
> concepts directly into Lojban. It's much better to understand how thin= gs
> work in Lojban and then try to use them to express what you want to sa= y.
>
> If you're just asking for personal pronouns the first and second= person is
> covered by:
>
> {mi} -> me (the speaker)
> {do} -> you (the listener)
> {ko} -> you (imperative)
> {do'o} -> you and others but not me
> {mi'o} -> you and me but not others
> {ma'a} -> me, you and others
> {mi'a} -> me and others but not you
>
> For third person one uses the assignable pro-sumti {ko'V} and {fo'V} o= r a
> the first letter of the sumti you want to refer to.
>
> I saw a dog. it was running -> {mi viska lo gerku goi ko'a .i ko'a = bajra}
> I saw a dog. it was running -> {mi viska lo gerku .i gy. bajra}
>
> co'o mu'o mi'e la remod
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

> On Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 10:04 PM, Annie <park.an...@asb.g= aggle.net> wrote:
> > How do you make a word possessive in Lojban? Also, what are the p= ronouns
> > in Lojban?
>
> > Sent from my iPod
>
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mu'o mi'e .= aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu= do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

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