On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 9:07 PM, Annie <park.annie@asb.gaggle.net> wrote:

How can pronouns be so complicated that you have to = have a whole chapter on them?

Read the= chapter and you'll find out: http://dag.github.com/cll/7/1/
=A0

Sent from my= iPod

On Nov 26, 2012, at 1:18 PM, Mic= hael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:

=A0 And there are= even more, that haven't been mentioned in this discussion, like ri, ra= and ru, (basically the most recently mentioned thing, something mentioned = further back, and something even further back) vo'a, vo'e, vo'i= , vo'o, and vo'u (the first through fifth sumti associated with the= main bridi in this utterance), ti, ta, tu, ("pointing" indicator= s to things in the real world -- this, that, that over yonder), ways to ref= er to the sentences you are actually saying, etc. =A0Refer to chapter =A07 = of the grammar for the complete list and details. The equivalent of pronoun= s in lojban are complicated enough to warrant an entire chapter.

=A0 =A0 =A0 --gejyspa

On Sat, Nov 24= , 2012 at 6:43 PM, Remo Dentato <rdentato@gmail.com> wrote:=
There are even more than ten. The point is that our pronouns we use are hig= hly ambigous.

If I say: "Sam met Mark. He was sad" who is= the sad one? You can't tell.

In Lojban you can assign a pro-sum= ti to make this explicit:

if Sam was the sad one: { la .sem. goi ko'a penmi la .mark. .i ko&#= 39;a badri }
if Mark was the sad one: { la .sem. penmi la .mark. goi ko= 'a .i ko'a badri }

Once assigned, {ko'a} will always ha= ve the same referent unless it is reassigned.

But you can also simply use the first letter of the sumti as a pro-sumt= i:

{ la .sam. penmi la .mark. i sy. badri }
{ la .sam. penmi la = .mark. i my. badri }

The rule here is that a letter refers with the= last sumti that started with that letter.

You can also assign letters, in which case they retain their referent t= hroughout the text. If you say:

{ la .sam. goi sy. penmi la .mark. }=

the letter {sy} will always refer to Sam in the following text.
It is subject to discussion whether using an unassigned pro-sumti is to= be considered "good Lojban" or not.

If you structure you= r Lojban sentences carefully, you'll see that you won't need the th= ird person much.

For example:=A0
{ la .sam. poi badri cu penmi la .mark. }
=

On Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 11:45 PM, Annie <park.annie@asb.gaggle.= net> wrote:

How can there possibl= y be ten thirdcomperson prosumti? Do they all mean he, she, it, or they, or= is there some hidden meanings I didn't know about? What are the actual= words?a

Sent from my iPod

On Nov 24, 2012, at 4:34 PM, = Jonathan Jones <e= yeonus@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 3:08 PM, ianek <ja= nek37@gmail.com> wrote:
Unless I'm wrong, {lo mi kumfa} and {lo kumfa pe mi} have exactly the same meaning.

They do. {lo mi kumfa} is literally = just shorthand for {lo kumfa pe mi}.
=A0
There are also other ways, but those listed by remod are the most
important.
And, you misspelled "sumti" as "su,ti". No need to conf= use Annie more
than necessary (zo'o)
Capital V in {ko'V} and {fo'V} means any vowel of a, e, i, o, u
(there's a total of ten third person pro-sumti, not counting
letterals).

mu'o mi'e ianek

On 24 Lis, 22:36, Remo Dentato <rdent...@gmail.com> wrote:
> For possessive you have many option.
>
> 1. using {pe} to indicate an association: "my room (where I sleep= )" -> { lo
> kumfa pe mi }
> 2. using {po} to indicate possession: "my room (that I own)"= -> =A0{ lo kumfa
> po mi }
> 3. using one of the personal pro-sumti: "my room (in an unspecifi= ed sense"
> -> { lo mi kunfa }
> 4. using the dedicated su,ti place like in "my father" ->= { lo patfu be mi }
>
> =A0The role of pronouns is played, in Lojban, by the pro-sumti. Note t= hat
> they are not exactly the same! It's better not to try to translate= English
> concepts directly into Lojban. It's much better to understand how = things
> work in Lojban and then try to use them to express what you want to sa= y.
>
> =A0If you're just asking for personal pronouns the first and secon= d person is
> covered by:
>
> =A0{mi} -> me (the speaker)
> =A0{do} -> you =A0(the listener)
> =A0{ko} -> you (imperative)
> =A0{do'o} -> you and others but not me
> =A0{mi'o} -> you and me but not others
> =A0{ma'a} -> me, you and others
> =A0{mi'a} -> me and others but not you
>
> For third person one uses the assignable pro-sumti {ko'V} and {fo&= #39;V} or a
> the first letter of the sumti you want to refer to.
>
> I saw a dog. it was running -> {mi viska lo gerku goi ko'a .i k= o'a bajra}
> I saw a dog. it was running -> {mi viska lo gerku .i gy. bajra}
>
> co'o mu'o mi'e la remod
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

> On Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 10:04 PM, Annie <park.an...@asb.g= aggle.net> wrote:
> > How do you make a word possessive in Lojban? Also, what are the p= ronouns
> > in Lojban?
>
> > Sent from my iPod
>
> > *** This Email was sent by a student at School for the Blind.
>
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mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l= uk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. = :D )

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