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Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] "Should" and "would"
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What does {da'i} actually do? Is it a bit like {pau}, in that it's helpful 
but only the {nai} form changes the meaning?

On Saturday, 10 November 2012 07:00:02 UTC, la gleki wrote:
>
> I should add that Lojban follows one interesting principle of language 
> planning called "facultative precision".
>
> In short, 
> 1. if you remove words from a Lojbanic utterance you slowly lose 
> precision. 
> 2. And vice versa, of course (by adding more words you prove that Lojban 
> is the most precise language in the world, although, this second aspect of 
> Lojban is unfortunately known much more than the 1st aspect).
>
> So e.g. when you remove {da'i} the sentence becomes more vague but it *does 
> not get the opposite or another meaning*.
>
> The principle is described in the following article<http://www2.ling.su.se/staff/hartmut/griceil.htm>
> .
> No wonder they mention Loglan (however, they criticize it based on their 
> subjective biased feelings).
>
> On Friday, November 9, 2012 10:41:21 PM UTC+4, Michael Turniansky wrote:
>>
>>   I disagree that da'i is not needed below.  Without it, the sentence 
>> reads "Since I am I chicken, there is no road crossing."
>>           --gejyspa (12 days behind in email. I had brought it down to 9, 
>> but have been busy at work.)
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 4:05 PM, selpa'i <m...@plasmatix.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Sometimes, the "would" appears together with an if-clause, in which case 
>>> a {da'i} isn't always needed:
>>>
>>> mi va'o lo nu [da'i] mi jipci cu na kuckla lo dargu
>>> If I was a chicken, I wouldn't cross the road.
>>>
>>> Here the {da'i} is not strictly needed, because the event tagged by va'o 
>>> is not claimed by the speaker. The {da'i} can be used to add emphasis on 
>>> the non-factualness of the sentence, however.
>>>
>>
>>

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What does {da'i} actually do? Is it a bit like {pau}, in that it's helpful =
but only the {nai} form changes the meaning?<br><br>On Saturday, 10 Novembe=
r 2012 07:00:02 UTC, la gleki  wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" styl=
e=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left:=
 1ex;">I should add that Lojban follows one interesting principle of langua=
ge planning called "facultative precision".<div><br></div><div>In short,&nb=
sp;</div><div>1. if you remove words from a Lojbanic utterance you slowly l=
ose precision.&nbsp;</div><div>2. And vice versa, of course (by adding more=
 words you prove that Lojban is the most precise language in the world, alt=
hough, this second aspect of Lojban is unfortunately known much more than t=
he 1st aspect).</div><div><br></div><div>So e.g. when you remove {da'i} the=
 sentence becomes more vague but it <b>does not get the opposite or another=
 meaning</b>.<br><br></div><div>The principle is described in the following=
 <a href=3D"http://www2.ling.su.se/staff/hartmut/griceil.htm" target=3D"_bl=
ank">article</a>.</div><div>No wonder they mention Loglan (however, they cr=
iticize it based on their subjective biased feelings).<br></div><div><br></=
div><div>On Friday, November 9, 2012 10:41:21 PM UTC+4, Michael Turniansky =
wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex=
;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">&nbsp; I dis=
agree that da'i is not needed below. &nbsp;Without it, the sentence reads "=
Since I am I chicken, there is no road crossing."<div>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; --gejyspa (12 days behind in email. I had brought it down to =
9, but have been busy at work.)</div>

<div><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 4:05 PM, se=
lpa'i <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a>m...@plasmatix.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>=
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">

<div>Sometimes, the "would" appears together with an if-clause, in which ca=
se a {da'i} isn't always needed:<br>
<br>
mi va'o lo nu [da'i] mi jipci cu na kuckla lo dargu<br>
If I was a chicken, I wouldn't cross the road.<br>
<br>
Here the {da'i} is not strictly needed, because the event tagged by va'o is=
 not claimed by the speaker. The {da'i} can be used to add emphasis on the =
non-factualness of the sentence, however.</div></blockquote>

</div><br></div></div>
</blockquote></div></blockquote>

<p></p>

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