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Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2012 23:07:20 -0500
Message-ID: <CAKOEKkQ=OEUj7SYKRYA2PDjLG2g8B+DMFvGUZW=u-HX=w4q_fw@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] "Should" and "would"
From: Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com>
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  I'm not really ready to concede your contention that "abstractions are by
default not asserted"  True, in some cases they can be implications, like
"mi terve'u ba lo nu mi catlu le skina" (I will buy after I watch the
movie") If I never finish watching the movie (or never even started
watching one), I will never go shopping. But in other cases they are quite
definitely asserted: "bai lo nu carvi kei mi ca stali lo nenri" (Forced by
the rain, I am staying inside).  I am certainly asserting that it is
raining, or the sentence is pretty well meaningless.

   Nevertheless, I did one to correct one aspect of my post.  I missed the
"mi" at the beginning of the sentence in question, "mi va'o lo nu mi jipci
cu na kuckla lo dargu", so my translation should have read, "Since I am a
chicken, I will not cross the road".

                --gejyspa

On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 1:50 PM, selpa'i <m3o@plasmatix.com> wrote:

> Am 09.11.2012 19:41, schrieb Michael Turniansky:
>
>     I disagree that da'i is not needed below.  Without it, the sentence
>> reads "Since I am I chicken, there is no road crossing."
>>
>
> No, it does not (necessarily) mean that. Abstractions are by default not
> asserted.
> You can get your meaning explicitly by using da'i nai, but if context is
> strong enough, you can get away without that. Still, the default is that =
it
> is not asserted.
>
> mu'o mi'e selpa'i
>
>
> --
> do=E1=BB=8B m=C3=A8lbi mlen=C3=AC'u
>    .i do c=C3=A0tlu ki'u
> ma fe la x=C3=A0mpre =C5=ADu
>    .i do t=C3=ACnsa c=C3=A0rmi
> gi'e s=C3=ACrji se t=C3=A0rmi
>    .i ta=E1=BB=8B bo pu c=C3=ACtka lo gr=C3=A0na ku
>
>
> .
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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nners?hl=3Den>
> .
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">=C2=A0 I&#39;m not really ready to concede your contention=
 that &quot;abstractions are by default not asserted&quot; =C2=A0True, in s=
ome cases they can be implications, like &quot;mi terve&#39;u ba lo nu mi c=
atlu le skina&quot; (I will buy after I watch the movie&quot;) If I never f=
inish watching the movie (or never even started watching one), I will never=
 go shopping. But in other cases they are quite definitely asserted: &quot;=
bai lo nu carvi kei mi ca stali lo nenri&quot; (Forced by the rain, I am st=
aying inside). =C2=A0I am certainly asserting that it is raining, or the se=
ntence is pretty well meaningless.<div>
<br></div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0Nevertheless, I did one to correct one aspect o=
f my post. =C2=A0I missed the &quot;mi&quot; at the beginning of the senten=
ce in question, &quot;mi va&#39;o lo nu mi jipci cu na kuckla lo dargu&quot=
;, so my translation should have read, &quot;Since I am a chicken, I will n=
ot cross the road&quot;.</div>
<div><br></div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
 --gejyspa</div><div><br></div><div><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Nov =
9, 2012 at 1:50 PM, selpa&#39;i <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:m3o=
@plasmatix.com" target=3D"_blank">m3o@plasmatix.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<b=
r>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Am 09.11.2012 19:41, schrieb Michael Turnian=
sky:<div class=3D"im"><br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
=C2=A0 =C2=A0I disagree that da&#39;i is not needed below. =C2=A0Without it=
, the sentence<br>
reads &quot;Since I am I chicken, there is no road crossing.&quot;<br>
</blockquote>
<br></div>
No, it does not (necessarily) mean that. Abstractions are by default not as=
serted.<br>
You can get your meaning explicitly by using da&#39;i nai, but if context i=
s strong enough, you can get away without that. Still, the default is that =
it is not asserted.<br>
<br>
mu&#39;o mi&#39;e selpa&#39;i<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
<br>
-- <br>
do=E1=BB=8B m=C3=A8lbi mlen=C3=AC&#39;u<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0.i do c=C3=A0tlu ki&#39;u<br>
ma fe la x=C3=A0mpre =C5=ADu<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0.i do t=C3=ACnsa c=C3=A0rmi<br>
gi&#39;e s=C3=ACrji se t=C3=A0rmi<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0.i ta=E1=BB=8B bo pu c=C3=ACtka lo gr=C3=A0na ku<br>
<br>
<br>
.<br>
<br>
-- <br>
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<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div>

<p></p>

-- <br />
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