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[208.81.237.198]) by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id u20si93121anj.3.2012.11.29.12.01.23; Thu, 29 Nov 2012 12:01:24 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of park.annie@asb.gaggle.net designates 208.81.237.198 as permitted sender) client-ip=208.81.237.198; Received: (qmail 17831 invoked by uid 358); 29 Nov 2012 20:01:22 -0000 Received: from [10.0.32.2] (HELO web9.gaggle.net) (10.0.32.2) by mx8.gaggle.net (qpsmtpd/0.83) with ESMTP; Thu, 29 Nov 2012 12:01:22 -0800 Received: from [204.29.72.237] (HELO [192.168.0.127]) (204.29.72.237) (smtp-auth username Park.Annie@asb.gaggle.net, mechanism plain) by mx7.gaggle.net (qpsmtpd/0.83) with ESMTPA; Thu, 29 Nov 2012 08:38:55 -0800 Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Fullstop References: <41C793FE-DF9E-4814-82D9-353E740E390D@asb.gaggle.net> <0008395A-7118-4574-819E-2C5EDB2ED45F@asb.gaggle.net> <9027430.VGYknXV5XY@caracal> From: Annie In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2012 17:33:00 -0800 (PST) To: "lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com" Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: iPod Mail (10A523) X-Virus-Checked: Checked by ClamAV on mx7.gaggle.net X-Gaggle-Info: *** This Email was sent by a student at School for the Blind. 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The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Oo, I mean why don't you take the full stop out and put the space? Besides, how do you pronounce words that have a full stop in themhis When I try to pause within the word, it sounds like there needs to be an apostrophe or something? Sent from my iPod On Nov 24, 2012, at 4:00 PM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote: On Fri, Nov 23, 2012 at 5:48 PM, Annie <park.annie@asb.gaggle.net> wrote: Why would you want to elide two words together like that, when you can just space between them? Firstly, it's not eliding. The pauses are required by the grammar of Lojban, and {na.e} takes one less character than {na .e}. Furthermore, not having the space serves to visually group the words together, subtly signalling to readers that the two words are linked. With {na.e}, for example, the {na} modifies the {.e}, and in fact, the {na} makes no sense without the {.e}, and the {.e} means something else entirely without the {na}. A .e B = A and B: "1 .e 1" = 1 A na.e B = !A and B, (not A) and B: "1 na.e 1" = "0 .e 1" = 0 A .enai B = A and !B, A and (not B): "1 .enai 1" = "1 .e 0" = 0 Sent from my iPod On Nov 21, 2012, at 10:51 PM, Pierre Abbat <phma@bezitopo.org> wrote: > On Wednesday, November 21, 2012 13:18:39 Annie wrote: >> All that makes since, the full stop separating one word from a word that >> begins a vowel and all. However, I've seen it in the middle of words >> before. What's that for? Sent from my iPod > > It's actually separating two words, but they're written run together. For > example: > > la .kot.divuár. na.e la .pyd. xazdo > Côte d'Ivoire not-and Tibet Asian > Côte d'Ivoire is not Asian, but Tibet is. > > "kot.divuar" is two words, but a single name. "na.e" is two words, but a > single conjunction, and the second word begins with a vowel. ("naje" is also > two words, and logically the same conjunction, but it connects a different kind > of phrase.) > > ta'e la .kot.divuár. du la xantyde'i xaskoi > > Pierre > -- > li ze te'a ci vu'u ci bi'e te'a [...] Content analysis details: (0.8 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.8 DATE_IN_PAST_12_24 Date: is 12 to 24 hours before Received: date -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature Content-Length: 10480 ------=_Part_21514_7540731.1354207135663 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Oo, I mean why don't you take the full stop out and put the space? Besides,= how do you pronounce words that have a full stop in themhis When I try to = pause within the word, it sounds like there needs to be an apostrophe or so= mething? Sent from my iPod On Nov 24, 2012, at 4:00 PM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gma= il.com> wrote: On Fri, Nov 23, 2012 at 5:48 PM, Annie <park.ann= ie@asb.gaggle.net> wrote: Why would you want to elide two words together like that, when you can just= space between them? Firstly, it's not eliding. The pauses are required by the grammar of Lojban= , and {na.e} takes one less character than {na .e}. Furthermore, not having= the space serves to visually group the words together, subtly signalling t= o readers that the two words are linked. With {na.e}, for example, the {na}= modifies the {.e}, and in fact, the {na} makes no sense without the {.e}, = and the {.e} means something else entirely without the {na}. A .e B =3D A and B: "1 .e 1" =3D 1 A na.e B =3D !A and B, (not A) and B: "1 na.e 1" =3D "0 .e 1" =3D 0 A .enai B =3D A and !B, A and (not B): "1 .enai 1" =3D "1 .e 0" =3D 0 Sent from my iPod On Nov 21, 2012, at 10:51 PM, Pierre Abbat <phma@bezitop= o.org> wrote: > On Wednesday, November 21, 2012 13:18:39 Annie wrote: >> All that makes since, the full stop separating one word from a word that >> begins a vowel and all. However, I've seen it in the middle of words >> before. What's that for? Sent from my iPod > > It's actually separating two words, but they're written run together. For > example: > > la .kot.divu=E1r. na.e la .pyd. xazdo > C=F4te d'Ivoire not-and Tibet Asian > C=F4te d'Ivoire is not Asian, but Tibet is. > > "kot.divuar" is two words, but a single name. "na.e" is two words, but a > single conjunction, and the second word begins with a vowel. ("naje" is a= lso > two words, and logically the same conjunction, but it connects a differen= t kind > of phrase.) > > ta'e la .kot.divu=E1r. du la xantyde'i xaskoi > > Pierre > -- > li ze te'a ci vu'u ci bi'e te'a mu du > li ci su'i ze te'a mu bi'e vu'u ci > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups= "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to l= ojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3D= en. > > *** This Email was sent by a student at School for the Blind. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to loj= ban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den= . -- mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to loj= ban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den= . *** This Email was sent by a student at School for the Blind. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den. ------=_Part_21514_7540731.1354207135663 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Oo, I mean why don't you take the = full stop out and put the space? Besides, how do you pronounce words that h= ave a full stop in themhis When I try to pause within the word, it sounds l= ike there needs to be an apostrophe or something? 

Sent from my= iPod

On Nov 24, 2012, at 4:00 PM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:

On Fri, Nov 23, = 2012 at 5:48 PM, Annie <park.annie@asb.gaggle.net> w= rote:
Why would you want to elide two words together like that, when you can just= space between them?

Firstly, it's not eliding. Th= e pauses are required by the grammar of Lojban, and {na.e} takes one less c= haracter than {na .e}. Furthermore, not having the space serves to visually= group the words together, subtly signalling to readers that the two words = are linked. With {na.e}, for example, the {na} modifies the {.e}, and in fa= ct, the {na} makes no sense without the {.e}, and the {.e} means something = else entirely without the {na}.

A .e B =3D A and B: "1 .e 1" =3D 1
A na.e B =3D !A and B, (not A) an= d B: "1 na.e 1" =3D "0 .e 1" =3D 0
A .enai B =3D A and !B, A and (not B)= : "1 .enai 1" =3D "1 .e 0" =3D 0
 
Sent from my iPod

On Nov 21, 2012, at 10:51 PM, Pierre Abbat <phma@bezitopo.org> wrote:

> On Wednesday, November 21, 2012 13:18:39 Annie wrote:
>> All that makes since, the full stop separating one word from a wor= d that
>> begins a vowel and all. However, I've seen it in the middle of wor= ds
>> before. What's that for? Sent from my iPod
>
> It's actually separating two words, but they're written run together. = For
> example:
>
> la .kot.divu=E1r. na.e la .pyd. xazdo
> C=F4te d'Ivoire not-and Tibet Asian
> C=F4te d'Ivoire is not Asian, but Tibet is.
>
> "kot.divuar" is two words, but a single name. "na.e" is two words, but= a
> single conjunction, and the second word begins with a vowel. ("naje" i= s also
> two words, and logically the same conjunction, but it connects a diffe= rent kind
> of phrase.)
>
> ta'e la .kot.divu=E1r. du la xantyde'i xaskoi
>
> Pierre
> --
> li ze te'a ci vu'u ci bi'e te'a mu du
> li ci su'i ze te'a mu bi'e vu'u ci
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Gro= ups "Lojban Beginners" group.
> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@goo= glegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.= com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.
>
>


*** This Email was sent by a student a= t School for the Blind.

--
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To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegr= oups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/g= roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.




--
mu'o mi'e .= aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu= do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

--
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To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginn= ers?hl=3Den.





*** This Email w= as sent by a student at School for the Blind.

--
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