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[208.81.237.184]) by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id i27si172050yhb.0.2012.12.04.11.59.46; Tue, 04 Dec 2012 11:59:47 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of park.annie@asb.gaggle.net designates 208.81.237.184 as permitted sender) client-ip=208.81.237.184; Received: (qmail 18264 invoked by uid 358); 4 Dec 2012 19:59:45 -0000 Received: from [10.0.32.2] (HELO archive3.gaggle.net) (10.0.32.2) by mx4.gaggle.net (qpsmtpd/0.83) with ESMTP; Tue, 04 Dec 2012 11:59:45 -0800 Received: from [204.29.72.160] (HELO [204.29.72.160]) (204.29.72.160) (smtp-auth username Park.Annie@asb.gaggle.net, mechanism plain) by mx1.gaggle.net (qpsmtpd/0.83) with ESMTPA; Tue, 04 Dec 2012 09:08:49 -0800 Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: Why no "about" brivla? References: <33272af0-7522-44d7-a040-e451bf851595@googlegroups.com> <3c1628ec-40a0-41fd-90a9-65e110d9ab0a@googlegroups.com> <96205a36-c08f-4ebe-877e-112c22a5aefc@googlegroups.com> From: Annie X-Mailer: iPod Mail (10A523) In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <1BAE77B0-BC82-4278-99FA-A0A80948E6C8@asb.gaggle.net> Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2012 09:08:46 -0800 (PST) To: "lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com" Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Checked: Checked by ClamAV on mx1.gaggle.net X-Gaggle-Info: *** This Email was sent by a student at School for the Blind. 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Sent from my iPod On Dec 3, 2012, at 5:01 AM, la gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote: No textbooks adapted for blind people? Might be true. But what about Mumble and/or Skype? Can't we organise voice lessons there? It would be awesome to have blind lojbanists as well. On Monday, December 3, 2012 2:17:13 PM UTC+4, ianek wrote: On 3 Gru, 05:15, Jonathan Jones <<>eyeo...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 3:33 PM, Annie <<>park.an...@asb.gaggle.net> wrote: > > How do you get "is dedicated to" out of "is related to"? > > I'd like to know that myself. > > > Besides, someone was trying to say that a more-than-five-letter word meaos > > "dedicate". How is that possible, when it's not a gismu? > > I think you're confusing "brivla" and "gismu" here. Firstly, gismu are not > the only words in Lojban that mean something. Every native and most > borrowed words have some kind of meaning. Secondly, there are many > different kinds of brivla besides gismu, tanru, lujvo, and fu'ivla being > the most common, but there are other types I don't feel like getting into > (, like the kind that use {me}). I think you're confusing "brivla" and "selbri" here. There are no brivla besides gismu, lujvo and fu'ivla. tanru is not a word, so it's not a predicate word. I also think that lojban-beginners is an awful place to start learning Lojban. L4B or wave lessons would be much better, but I don't know about their accessibility for blind people. mu'o mi'e ianek > > selra'a is a lujvo formed from the rafsi of {se} (sel-) and {srana} (ra'a). > {se} is a word meaning to switch the first and second places of the > immediately following gismu. > > So, if {srana} means "x1 pertains to/.../is about x2.", than {se srana} > (which is the same thing as {selra'a}) means "x1 is what x2 pertains > to/.../is about." > > Again, vlasisku (http://vlasisku.lojban.org) is extremely useful when it > comes to the meanings of words- that's its entire purpose for existence, > actually. > > As for {si'artersku}, that's formed from the rafsi for, respectively, > sinma, te, and cusku, with the 'r' placed in there for grammatical reasons. > I leave it as an exercise for you to figure out what it means, which is not > at all difficult to do, as all you need to do is look up the meaning of the > words. > > > > > > > > > > > Why do you need two words that mean practically the same in Lojbanhis > > Isn't that illogicalhis > > > Sent from my iPod > > > On Dec 2, 2012, at 1:05 AM, la gleki <<>gleki.is.my.n...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Sunday, December 2, 2012 10:52:54 AM UTC+4, aionys wrote: > > >> On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 11:50 PM, Jonathan Jones <<>eye...@gmail.com> wrote: > > >>> On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 11:09 PM, la gleki <<>gleki.is...@gmail.com> wrote: > > >>>> On Sunday, December 2, 2012 1:30:39 AM UTC+4, aionys wrote: > > >>>>> On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 6:17 AM, tijlan <<>jbot...@gmail.com> wrote: > > >>>>> On 1 December 2012 12:09, ianek <<>jan...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>>>> > This is just what {se srana} or {selra'a} is. > > >>>>>> An about, a thematic focus, is more specific than that. cfika2, for > >>>>>> instance, may be as much relevant to cfika1 as cfika3 may be -- a work > >>>>>> of fiction cu srana both its plot and its author (and possibly many > >>>>>> other things). Consider: > > >>>>>> la .alis. cfika sera'a lo nixli > > >>>>>> This doesn't necessarily say that the plot revolves around a girl -- > >>>>>> it could as well be saying the work is dedicated to a girl. > > >>>>> I'm sorry, I don't see how anything based on {srana} could possibly > >>>>> mean "dedicated to". You'll have to explain. > > >>>> Well, may be it's not that something is wrong with {sera'a/pe/srana} > >>>> but rather wrong usage and/or glossing. > > >>>> *srana x1 pertains to/is germane/relevant to/concerns/is > >>>> related/associated with/is about x2.* > >>>> *ckini x1 is related to/associated with/akin to x2 by relationship x3. > >>>> * > > >>>> If we arbitrarily chose parts of those definitions we'd get > >>>> * srana x1 is relevant to x2 > >>>> ckini x1 is relevant to x2 > >>>> * > >>>> which is nonsense. > > >>> ckini wouldn't be that. For one thing, you left out the x3, and for > >>> another, it isn't "relevant", it's "related". The Cold War isn't relevant > >>> to WWII, but it is related (by being a direct result of it). > > >>>> If {srana} really gives us thematic role then all the other "is > >>>> relevant to" meanings can be assigned to {ckini/seki'i}. > > >> Furthermore, your response does not show how one can get "dedicated to" > >> out of srana. > > > I can't explain tijlan's views. > > For me "dedicated to..." is {tecu'u}, may be with a shade of {sinma} (i.e. > > fi'o sia'rtersku) > > {finfriti} from jvs doesn't sound right for me (probably due to polysemy > > of "to dedicqte"). > > >> -- > >> mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > >> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o > >> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) > > >> -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "Lojban Beginners" group. > > To view this discussion on the web visit > >https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/x2tg50HGg-oJ. > > To post to this group, send email to<> lojban-b...@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > ><> lojban-beginne...@googlegroups.com. > > For more options, visit this group at > >http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > > > *** This Email was sent by a student at School for the Blind. > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "Lojban Beginners" group. > > To post to this group, send email to<> lojban-b...@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > ><> lojban-beginne...@googlegroups.com. > > For more options, visit this group at > >http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > > -- > mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/HKv8bmO69eMJ. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. *** This Email was sent by a student at School for the Blind. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. ------=_Part_53108_17749197.1354640935162 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Skype would be awesome, and it wou= ld be much quicker.

Sent from my iPod

On Dec 3, 2012, = at 5:01 AM, la gleki <glek= i.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:

No textbooks adapted for blind people? Might be true. But what about= Mumble and/or Skype?
Can't we organise voice lessons there? It would b= e awesome to have blind lojbanists as well.


On Monday, De= cember 3, 2012 2:17:13 PM UTC+4, ianek wrote:


On 3 Gru, 05:15, Jonathan Jones <eyeo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 3:33 PM, Annie <park.an...@asb.gaggle= .net> wrote:
> > How do you get "is dedicated to" out of "is related to"?
>
> I'd like to know that myself.
>
> > Besides, someone was trying to say that a more-than-five-lett= er word meaos
> > "dedicate". How is that possible, when it's not a gismu?
>
> I think you're confusing "brivla" and "gismu" here. Firstly, gismu= are not
> the only words in Lojban that mean something. Every native and mos= t
> borrowed words have some kind of meaning. Secondly, there are many
> different kinds of brivla besides gismu, tanru, lujvo, and fu'ivla= being
> the most common, but there are other types I don't feel like getti= ng into
> (, like the kind that use {me}).

I think you're confusing "brivla" and "selbri" here. There are no
brivla besides gismu, lujvo and fu'ivla. tanru is not a word, so it's
not a predicate word.

I also think that lojban-beginners is an awful place to start learning
Lojban. L4B or wave lessons would be much better, but I don't know
about their accessibility for blind people.

mu'o mi'e ianek

>
> selra'a is a lujvo formed from the rafsi of {se} (sel-) and {srana= } (ra'a).
> {se} is a word meaning to switch the first and second places of th= e
> immediately following gismu.
>
> So, if {srana} means "x1 pertains to/.../is about x2.", than {se s= rana}
> (which is the same thing as {selra'a}) means "x1 is what x2 pertai= ns
> to/.../is about."
>
> Again, vlasisku (http://vlasisku.lojban.org) is extremely useful when it
> comes to the meanings of words- that's its entire purpose for exis= tence,
> actually.
>
> As for {si'artersku}, that's formed from the rafsi for, respective= ly,
> sinma, te, and cusku, with the 'r' placed in there for grammatical= reasons.
> I leave it as an exercise for you to figure out what it means, whi= ch is not
> at all difficult to do, as all you need to do is look up the meani= ng of the
> words.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Why do you need  two words that mean practically the sam= e in Lojbanhis
> > Isn't that illogicalhis
>
> > Sent from my iPod
>
> > On Dec 2, 2012, at 1:05 AM, la gleki <gleki.is.my.n...@= gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Sunday, December 2, 2012 10:52:54 AM UTC+4, aionys wrote:
>
> >> On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 11:50 PM, Jonathan Jones <ey= e...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>> On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 11:09 PM, la gleki <glek= i.is...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>> On Sunday, December 2, 2012 1:30:39 AM UTC+4, aio= nys wrote:
>
> >>>>> On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 6:17 AM, tijlan <jbot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>> On 1 December 2012 12:09, ianek <jan...= @gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>> > This is just what {se srana} or {sel= ra'a} is.
>
> >>>>>> An about, a thematic focus, is more speci= fic than that. cfika2, for
> >>>>>> instance, may be as much relevant to cfik= a1 as cfika3 may be -- a work
> >>>>>> of fiction cu srana both its plot and its= author (and possibly many
> >>>>>> other things). Consider:
>
> >>>>>> la .alis. cfika sera'a lo nixli
>
> >>>>>> This doesn't necessarily say that the plo= t revolves around a girl --
> >>>>>> it could as well be saying the work is de= dicated to a girl.
>
> >>>>> I'm sorry, I don't see how anything based on = {srana} could possibly
> >>>>> mean "dedicated to". You'll have to explain.
>
> >>>> Well, may be it's not that something is wrong wit= h {sera'a/pe/srana}
> >>>> but rather wrong usage and/or glossing.
>
> >>>> *srana x1 pertains to/is germane/relevant to/conc= erns/is
> >>>> related/associated with/is about x2.*
> >>>> *ckini  x1 is related to/associated with/aki= n to x2 by relationship x3.
> >>>> *
>
> >>>> If we arbitrarily chose parts of those definition= s we'd get
> >>>> *  srana x1 is relevant to x2
> >>>>   ckini  x1 is relevant to x2
> >>>> *
> >>>> which is nonsense.
>
> >>> ckini wouldn't be that. For one thing, you left out t= he x3, and for
> >>> another, it isn't "relevant", it's "related". The Col= d War isn't relevant
> >>> to WWII, but it is related (by being a direct result = of it).
>
> >>>> If {srana} really gives us thematic role then all= the other "is
> >>>> relevant to" meanings can be assigned to {ckini/s= eki'i}.
>
> >> Furthermore, your response does not show how one can get = "dedicated to"
> >> out of srana.
>
> > I can't explain tijlan's views.
> > For me "dedicated to..." is {tecu'u}, may be with a shade of = {sinma} (i.e.
> > fi'o sia'rtersku)
> > {finfriti} from jvs doesn't sound right for me (probably due = to polysemy
> > of "to dedicqte").
>
> >> --
> >> mu'o mi'e .aionys.
>
> >> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi pa= tfu do zo'o
> >> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
>
> >>  --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the G= oogle Groups
> > "Lojban Beginners" group.
> > To view this discussion on the web visit
> >https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban= -beginners/-/x2tg50HGg-oJ.
> > To post to this group, send email to lojban-b...@google= groups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > lojban-beginne...@googlegroups.com.
> > For more options, visit this group at
> >http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginne= rs?hl=3Den.
>
> > *** This Email was sent by a student at School for the Blind.
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the G= oogle Groups
> > "Lojban Beginners" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to lojban-b...@google= groups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > lojban-beginne...@googlegroups.com.
> > For more options, visit this group at
> >http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginne= rs?hl=3Den.
>
> --
> mu'o mi'e .aionys.
>
> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo= 'o
> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/l= ojban-beginners/-/HKv8bmO69eMJ.
=20 To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginn= ers?hl=3Den.





*** This Email w= as sent by a student at School for the Blind.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
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