On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 5:22 AM= , ianek <janek37@gmail.com> wrote:
On 5 Gru, 10:43, Jonathan Jones <eyeo...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 1:34 AM, ianek <jane...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I don't think {nu} is good for describing relationships, rath= er {ka}.
> > When in doubt, you can always use {su'u}. I get the feeling t= hat {nu}
> > is somewhat overused.
>
> {nu} is the NU equivalent of {lo}. It's never wrong.

No. {su'u} is the NU equivalent of {lo}: generalized abstractor (= how);
x1 is [bridi] as a non-specific abstraction of type x2

{nu} is "generalized event abstractor; x1 is state/process/achievement= /
activity of [bridi]."
That means, {nu} can stand for each of: {za'i}, {pu'e}, {mu'u},=
{zu'o}, maybe {li'i} (but I doubt that; experience is not an event)= ,
but not for {du'u}, {jei}, {ka}, {ni}, {si'o} and of course {su'= ;u},
which is more general.

Hey, I'm just tel= ling you how it is. I'm not saying that {nu} should be the default, it = just happens to be that it IS.
=A0

Well, provided the extensive conversations *in* Lojban in IRC that I h= ave done with other jbopre of very respectable proficiency, I feel obligate= d to mention (especially seeing as this is lojban-beginners, after all) tha= t {nu} is not the default. A quick look in the CLL (or the dictionary, as i= anek did, ki'e) will tell you that nu is the event abstractor. The CLL = explicitly mentions that {nu} can't be used in djuno2, which clearly re= futes that {nu} is the default abstractor.

Sure, {nu} is used in a lot of places where some might = argue that {ka} is better, and that's fine; usage has spoken in favour = of {nu} in those places. However, that *does not* make {nu} the "defau= lt" abstractor. It just so happens that it is probably the most *commo= n* abstractor. Avoiding these types of confusion is important in a beginner= s list where members might actually believe that it is OK to use {nu} every= where, which is what your message suggests.

ianek is correct, {su'u} is the default abstractor = that is comparable to {zo'e} in that it is vague as to which real abstr= actor it represents.

.i mi'e la tsani mu'o=

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