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Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: Why no "about" brivla?
From: Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com>
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On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 10:38 AM, selpa'i <m3o@plasmatix.com> wrote:

> la Jonathan Jones cu cusku di'e
>
>> Here's a hypothetical example of why I don't agree that srana "x1 is
>>
>> pertinent/relevant to x2" could be used to mean "dedicated to":
>>
>> Let us say that I wrote a book, and upon its being published, I gave it
>> the dedication "To my wife, for putting up with me as I wrote this".
>> Then is would be true that {lo mi cukta cu ckini lo mi speni lodu'u ca
>> nu mi ciska ku sy. se fanza mi}.
>>
>
> (You forgot a "lo" before after "ca".)


{lo mi cukta cu ckini lo mi speni lodu'u ca lonu mi ciska ku sy. se fanza
mi}


> However, other than the dedication, my
>
>> wife has nothing to do with the book- the story contained within has
>> absolutely nothing to do with my wife in any way, except in that she may
>> find it enjoyable to read, which has nothing to do with the decision to
>> dedicate it to her, and so {lo mi cukta cu na srana lo mi speni}, it's
>> in no way pertinent to/relevant to/concerning/about my wife.
>>
>
> Here is a non-hypothetical example from my own experience: Whenever I
> create something, for example when I compose a piece or when I write a bo=
ok
> or any such thing, I always dedicate it to someone (and it's always a
> different person each time). If someone was familiar with my musical piec=
es
> and wanted to refer to one of them, I would consider it entirely correct =
to
> use srana/pe thus:
>
> mi nelci lo do zgike se finti .i pu zi tinju'i lo do se finti pe la'o me.
> Han Ga Eun .me
>
> Or:
>
> mi pu zi tinju'i lo srana be la'o me. Han Ga Eun .me
>
> "I like your compositions. I just listened to your Han Ga Eun piece."
>
> That's the easiest way to distinguish them, especially since I don't give
> my pieces names. pe/ne/srana are by nature vague and rely on context. And=
 I
> think that's a good thing.


In this instance, I concede the use of {pe}, but not {srana}. "Dedicated"
is /not/ "pertinent". "Associated with" should not be part of the English
definition of srana, since it is obviously misunderstood. {srana} is not
the gismu equivalent of {pe}. {ckini} is.


> mu'o mi'e la selpa'i
>
> --
> pilno zo le xu .i lo dei bangu cu se cmene zo lojbo je nai zo lejbo
>
> do=E1=BB=8B m=C3=A8lbi mlen=C3=AC'u
>    .i do c=C3=A0tlu ki'u
> ma fe la x=C3=A0mpre =C5=ADu
>    .i do t=C3=ACnsa c=C3=A0rmi
> gi je s=C3=ACrji se t=C3=A0rmi
>    .i ta=E1=BB=8B bo da'i pu c=C3=ACtka lo gr=C3=A0na ku
>
>
> .
>
>
> .
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Lojban Beginners" group.
> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.**com<=
lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com>
> .
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@**googlegroups.com<lojban-beginners%2Bunsubs=
cribe@googlegroups.com>
> .
> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/**
> group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den<http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-begi=
nners?hl=3Den>
> .
>
>


--=20
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

--=20
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<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 10:38 AM, selpa&#39;i <sp=
an dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:m3o@plasmatix.com" target=3D"_blank">m=
3o@plasmatix.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote"=
 style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div class=3D"im">la Jonathan Jones cu cusku di&#39;e<br>
</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-l=
eft:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Here&#39;s a hypothetical example of why I don&#39;t agree that srana &quot=
;x1 is<div class=3D"im"><br>
pertinent/relevant to x2&quot; could be used to mean &quot;dedicated to&quo=
t;:<br>
<br>
Let us say that I wrote a book, and upon its being published, I gave it<br>
the dedication &quot;To my wife, for putting up with me as I wrote this&quo=
t;.<br>
Then is would be true that {lo mi cukta cu ckini lo mi speni lodu&#39;u ca<=
br>
nu mi ciska ku sy. se fanza mi}.<br>
</div></blockquote>
<br>
(You forgot a &quot;lo&quot; before after &quot;ca&quot;.)</blockquote><div=
><br>{lo mi cukta cu ckini lo mi speni lodu&#39;u ca lonu mi ciska ku sy. s=
e fanza mi}<br>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margi=
n:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div class=3D"im">However, other than the dedication, my<br><blockquote cla=
ss=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;pa=
dding-left:1ex">
wife has nothing to do with the book- the story contained within has<br>
absolutely nothing to do with my wife in any way, except in that she may<br=
>
find it enjoyable to read, which has nothing to do with the decision to<br>
dedicate it to her, and so {lo mi cukta cu na srana lo mi speni}, it&#39;s<=
br>
in no way pertinent to/relevant to/concerning/about my wife.<br>
</blockquote>
<br></div>
Here is a non-hypothetical example from my own experience: Whenever I creat=
e something, for example when I compose a piece or when I write a book or a=
ny such thing, I always dedicate it to someone (and it&#39;s always a diffe=
rent person each time). If someone was familiar with my musical pieces and =
wanted to refer to one of them, I would consider it entirely correct to use=
 srana/pe thus:<br>

<br>
mi nelci lo do zgike se finti .i pu zi tinju&#39;i lo do se finti pe la&#39=
;o me. Han Ga Eun .me<br>
<br>
Or:<br>
<br>
mi pu zi tinju&#39;i lo srana be la&#39;o me. Han Ga Eun .me<br>
<br>
&quot;I like your compositions. I just listened to your Han Ga Eun piece.&q=
uot;<br>
<br>
That&#39;s the easiest way to distinguish them, especially since I don&#39;=
t give my pieces names. pe/ne/srana are by nature vague and rely on context=
. And I think that&#39;s a good thing.</blockquote><div><br>In this instanc=
e, I concede the use of {pe}, but not {srana}. &quot;Dedicated&quot; is /no=
t/ &quot;pertinent&quot;. &quot;Associated with&quot; should not be part of=
 the English definition of srana, since it is obviously misunderstood. {sra=
na} is not the gismu equivalent of {pe}. {ckini} is.<br>
=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bo=
rder-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"im HOEnZb">mu&#39;=
o mi&#39;e la selpa&#39;i<br>
<br>
-- <br>
pilno zo le xu .i lo dei bangu cu se cmene zo lojbo je nai zo lejbo<br>
<br>
do=E1=BB=8B m=C3=A8lbi mlen=C3=AC&#39;u<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0.i do c=C3=A0tlu ki&#39;u<br>
ma fe la x=C3=A0mpre =C5=ADu<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0.i do t=C3=ACnsa c=C3=A0rmi<br>
gi je s=C3=ACrji se t=C3=A0rmi<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0.i ta=E1=BB=8B bo da&#39;i pu c=C3=ACtka lo gr=C3=A0na ku<br>
<br>
<br>
.<br>
<br>
<br>
.<br>
<br></div><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5">
-- <br>
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
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To post to this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban-beginners@goo=
glegroups.com" target=3D"_blank">lojban-beginners@googlegroups.<u></u>com</=
a>.<br>
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nners%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com" target=3D"_blank">lojban-beginners+un=
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For more options, visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/g=
roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den" target=3D"_blank">http://groups.google.com/<=
u></u>group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den</a>.<br>
<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>mu&#39;o mi=
&#39;e .aionys.<br><br>.i.e&#39;ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l=
uk. mi patfu do zo&#39;o<br>(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. =
:D )<br>
<br>

<p></p>

-- <br />
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Lojban Beginners" group.<br />
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.<br =
/>
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-beginners?hl=3Den.<br />



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