Received: from mail-yh0-f61.google.com ([209.85.213.61]:37169) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1TfB9C-00033c-Ed; Sun, 02 Dec 2012 07:08:13 -0800 Received: by mail-yh0-f61.google.com with SMTP id o21sf1052408yho.16 for ; Sun, 02 Dec 2012 07:07:52 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=fgc1JJ4bSNon/7MXoxKFdlROCRYeoz4sEGKGHKgn7pk=; b=ePD+wir15C/wvlB4BhyqEbkSz6SKXhC47eiW3E0o8J+hA8qw1y2DipbJb3vNO3+Nhp 1yJ08kXQvEbqi8Xq/EPaFT7e+XhpqKWtp5+hGWsPo+GvA3tX5I/sEeE1bqo5kLT8AEpx seKzrsg5ohgMyDzcY8xu7i3LP7ciQHhTrdqY4C5kRg3+GkuSvE1B8cVIwc5GWTvsDVnC sbLoF0NPnBSFzgfZX8EOpI+NaC72GAoNvzi/lyYdOJOyYrf7aDNSV/Ykv5TePHy0zYnn b0z/CmZ5OEjGh40FxVaGNsD7V/z5sPXslEVe2FhMLCz338GnS2iL4T03PZi5KPRn1XuZ hNXQ== Received: by 10.50.213.33 with SMTP id np1mr1266689igc.3.1354460871003; Sun, 02 Dec 2012 07:07:51 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.50.154.231 with SMTP id vr7ls1035418igb.10.canary; Sun, 02 Dec 2012 07:07:49 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.43.49.195 with SMTP id vb3mr5291803icb.24.1354460869511; Sun, 02 Dec 2012 07:07:49 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.43.49.195 with SMTP id vb3mr5291802icb.24.1354460869486; Sun, 02 Dec 2012 07:07:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-oa0-f53.google.com (mail-oa0-f53.google.com [209.85.219.53]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id hw1si546027igc.3.2012.12.02.07.07.48 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 02 Dec 2012 07:07:48 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.219.53 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.219.53; Received: by mail-oa0-f53.google.com with SMTP id j6so1901474oag.40 for ; Sun, 02 Dec 2012 07:07:48 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.60.4.226 with SMTP id n2mr6019231oen.63.1354460868141; Sun, 02 Dec 2012 07:07:48 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.182.186.74 with HTTP; Sun, 2 Dec 2012 07:07:47 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <32445653-87F5-45CD-8644-AC150EC68E8F@asb.gaggle.net> References: <3AD9ACF2-9875-4BC8-86C1-65D29ADB8226@asb.gaggle.net> <32445653-87F5-45CD-8644-AC150EC68E8F@asb.gaggle.net> Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2012 10:07:47 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Possessives From: Michael Turniansky To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: mturniansky@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.219.53 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=mturniansky@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8ff1c714e861bf04cfdffeb9 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / Content-Length: 10840 --e89a8ff1c714e861bf04cfdffeb9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Normally, you would use a connective, like "la djan .e la djim dunda lo djine la meris" (John and Jim gave a ring to Mary, which would mean they each gave her a ring) or "a djan jo'u la djim dunda lo djine la meris" (John along with Jim gave a ring to Mary). In these cases, the x1 is the whole connected give "John and Jim", "John along with Jim") --gejyspa On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 6:09 PM, Annie wrote: > What if, for example, two people gave one thing !one or more people? > Wouldn't that be more than one x1 and, mazbe more than one x3? > > Sent from my iPod > > On Nov 27, 2012, at 1:50 PM, Remo Dentato wrote: > > By definition, any selbri has one, and only one, "x1". > > "x1" is the conventional name we use to indicate the first sumti place, > "x2" is the second sumti place and so on. > > It's not a strict rule, you can use othe means to indicate the sumti > places of a selbri. Still there can only be one first place, one second > place etc. > > remod > > > On Tuesday, November 27, 2012, Annie wrote: > >> what do you d if a word has, for example, more than one x1 or whatever? >> >> Sent from my iPod >> >> On Nov 27, 2012, at 12:55 AM, Remo Dentato wrote: >> >> On Tuesday, November 27, 2012, Annie wrote: >> >>> How can pronouns be so complicated that you have to have a whole chapter >>> on them? >>> >>> >> It only seems complicated because you are thinking about them in terms of >> pronouns. >> In lojban there are no "nouns" and, hence, no "pronouns". >> Once you get the basic concepts of sumti and selbri, it will be easier. >> Exactly as {lo plise ku} is a sumti the refers to "an apple", {mi} is a >> sumti that refers to the current speaker, {ko'a} is a sumti that refers to >> whatever I had assigned to it, {ti} refers to something that is close to me >> and I'm pointing at and so on. >> This is what we intended when we said that it is better not to try to >> make direct comparisons between Lojban and English (or any other language). >> It may be useful at the beginning but should not be talen too far. >> >> remod >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Lojban Beginners" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> *** This Email was sent by a student at School for the Blind. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Lojban Beginners" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > > > > > > > *** This Email was sent by a student at School for the Blind. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --e89a8ff1c714e861bf04cfdffeb9 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=A0 Normally, you would use a connective, like =A0"la= djan .e la djim dunda lo djine la meris" (John and Jim gave a ring to= Mary, which would mean they each gave her a ring) or "a djan jo'u= la djim dunda lo djine la meris" (John along with Jim gave a ring to = Mary). =A0In these cases, the x1 is the whole connected give "John and= Jim", "John along with Jim")
=A0
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 --gejyspa

On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 6:09 PM, Annie <park.annie@asb.gag= gle.net> wrote:
What if, for example,= two people gave one thing !one or more people? Wouldn't that be more t= han one x1 and, mazbe more than one x3?

Sent from my iPod

On Nov 27, 2012,= at 1:50 PM, Remo Dentato <rdentato@gmail.com> wrote:

By definition, any selbri has one, and only one, "x1".
= =A0
"x1" is the conventional name we use to indicate the first= sumti place, "x2" is the second sumti place and so on.

It= 's not a strict rule, you can use othe means to indicate the sumti plac= es of a selbri. Still there can only be one first place, one second place e= tc.

remod


On Tuesday, November 27, 2012, A= nnie wrote:
what = do you d if a word has, for example, more than one x1 or whatever?

Sent from my iPod

On Nov 27, 2012, at 12:55 AM, Remo Dent= ato <rdentato@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, November 27, 2012, Annie wrote:=
How can pronouns = be so complicated that you have to have a whole chapter on them?

=A0
It only seems complicated= because you are thinking about them in terms of pronouns.=A0
In = lojban there are no "nouns" and, hence, no "pronouns".<= /div> Once you get the basic concepts of sumti and selbri, it will be easier.
Exactly as {lo plise ku} is a sumti the refers to "an appl= e", {mi} is a sumti that refers to the current speaker, {ko'a} is = a sumti that refers to whatever I had assigned to it, {ti} refers to someth= ing that is close to me and I'm pointing at =A0and so on.
This is what we intended when we said that it is better not to try to = make direct comparisons between Lojban and English (or any other language).= It may be useful at the beginning but should not be talen too far.

remod

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*** This Email was sent by a s= tudent at School for the Blind.

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*** This Email was sent by a student at School for th= e Blind.

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