Received: from mail-vc0-f189.google.com ([209.85.220.189]:41792) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1TfT5W-0007tb-7E; Mon, 03 Dec 2012 02:17:33 -0800 Received: by mail-vc0-f189.google.com with SMTP id p16sf1626005vcq.16 for ; Mon, 03 Dec 2012 02:17:15 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-beenthere:mime-version:date:in-reply-to:references:user-agent :x-http-useragent:message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=/UpZhgeElHAEDrfh2aFDC85EjEl6L2zCoQD6njiYQfI=; b=J6ZF4fY/pqCWX92rmc0JrIkTKfCI/iZ+iKi9942O4sEGXb4Ic4OYV0bOvc12j3yu3m 8v583HzeImCBSb6lVTNLCg/h5yNApchLByjDaPVH8QNm8bkCA+/e9samNRuPtmWkEU99 FDD+Ij85Vgtx62rWYudCw4vyVS/ssxDPkBL7S4hIQlSdjHWEunMbbztYaZL2xShqMi+K YXIBPfrsfMwqGZWmACgRXtCeOamdKHvhavQGH/re7PG0/G4rD7++0msbRMsfJ5Uv8C8I CIGD7G737S3TATL2KhiwkruOiRymi7AfkPtCbGDtuQ6iZxlCw9J74FRxDIOHEJJ17ZL5 rxHw== Received: by 10.49.58.238 with SMTP id u14mr2088025qeq.13.1354529835386; Mon, 03 Dec 2012 02:17:15 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.49.94.103 with SMTP id db7ls1821583qeb.69.gmail; Mon, 03 Dec 2012 02:17:13 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.49.127.198 with SMTP id ni6mr2067177qeb.23.1354529833894; Mon, 03 Dec 2012 02:17:13 -0800 (PST) Received: by r14g2000vbd.googlegroups.com with HTTP; Mon, 3 Dec 2012 02:17:13 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2012 02:17:13 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <33272af0-7522-44d7-a040-e451bf851595@googlegroups.com> <3c1628ec-40a0-41fd-90a9-65e110d9ab0a@googlegroups.com> <96205a36-c08f-4ebe-877e-112c22a5aefc@googlegroups.com> User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686) AppleWebKit/537.4 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/22.0.1229.79 Safari/537.4,gzip(gfe) Message-ID: Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Why no "about" brivla? From: ianek To: Lojban Beginners X-Original-Sender: janek37@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: ls.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of janek37@gmail.com designates internal as permitted sender) smtp.mail=janek37@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / Content-Length: 6207 On 3 Gru, 05:15, Jonathan Jones wrote: > On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 3:33 PM, Annie wrote: > > How do you get "is dedicated to" out of "is related to"? > > I'd like to know that myself. > > > Besides, someone was trying to say that a more-than-five-letter word me= aos > > "dedicate". How is that possible, when it's not a gismu? > > I think you're confusing "brivla" and "gismu" here. Firstly, gismu are no= t > the only words in Lojban that mean something. Every native and most > borrowed words have some kind of meaning. Secondly, there are many > different kinds of brivla besides gismu, tanru, lujvo, and fu'ivla being > the most common, but there are other types I don't feel like getting into > (, like the kind that use {me}). I think you're confusing "brivla" and "selbri" here. There are no brivla besides gismu, lujvo and fu'ivla. tanru is not a word, so it's not a predicate word. I also think that lojban-beginners is an awful place to start learning Lojban. L4B or wave lessons would be much better, but I don't know about their accessibility for blind people. mu'o mi'e ianek > > selra'a is a lujvo formed from the rafsi of {se} (sel-) and {srana} (ra'a= ). > {se} is a word meaning to switch the first and second places of the > immediately following gismu. > > So, if {srana} means "x1 pertains to/.../is about x2.", than {se srana} > (which is the same thing as {selra'a}) means "x1 is what x2 pertains > to/.../is about." > > Again, vlasisku (http://vlasisku.lojban.org) is extremely useful when it > comes to the meanings of words- that's its entire purpose for existence, > actually. > > As for {si'artersku}, that's formed from the rafsi for, respectively, > sinma, te, and cusku, with the 'r' placed in there for grammatical reason= s. > I leave it as an exercise for you to figure out what it means, which is n= ot > at all difficult to do, as all you need to do is look up the meaning of t= he > words. > > > > > > > > > > > Why do you need =A0two words that mean practically the same in Lojbanhi= s > > Isn't that illogicalhis > > > Sent from my iPod > > > On Dec 2, 2012, at 1:05 AM, la gleki wrote= : > > > On Sunday, December 2, 2012 10:52:54 AM UTC+4, aionys wrote: > > >> On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 11:50 PM, Jonathan Jones wro= te: > > >>> On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 11:09 PM, la gleki wro= te: > > >>>> On Sunday, December 2, 2012 1:30:39 AM UTC+4, aionys wrote: > > >>>>> On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 6:17 AM, tijlan wrote: > > >>>>> On 1 December 2012 12:09, ianek wrote: > >>>>>> > This is just what {se srana} or {selra'a} is. > > >>>>>> An about, a thematic focus, is more specific than that. cfika2, fo= r > >>>>>> instance, may be as much relevant to cfika1 as cfika3 may be -- a = work > >>>>>> of fiction cu srana both its plot and its author (and possibly man= y > >>>>>> other things). Consider: > > >>>>>> la .alis. cfika sera'a lo nixli > > >>>>>> This doesn't necessarily say that the plot revolves around a girl = -- > >>>>>> it could as well be saying the work is dedicated to a girl. > > >>>>> I'm sorry, I don't see how anything based on {srana} could possibly > >>>>> mean "dedicated to". You'll have to explain. > > >>>> Well, may be it's not that something is wrong with {sera'a/pe/srana} > >>>> but rather wrong usage and/or glossing. > > >>>> *srana x1 pertains to/is germane/relevant to/concerns/is > >>>> related/associated with/is about x2.* > >>>> *ckini =A0x1 is related to/associated with/akin to x2 by relationshi= p x3. > >>>> * > > >>>> If we arbitrarily chose parts of those definitions we'd get > >>>> * =A0srana x1 is relevant to x2 > >>>> =A0 ckini =A0x1 is relevant to x2 > >>>> * > >>>> which is nonsense. > > >>> ckini wouldn't be that. For one thing, you left out the x3, and for > >>> another, it isn't "relevant", it's "related". The Cold War isn't rele= vant > >>> to WWII, but it is related (by being a direct result of it). > > >>>> If {srana} really gives us thematic role then all the other "is > >>>> relevant to" meanings can be assigned to {ckini/seki'i}. > > >> Furthermore, your response does not show how one can get "dedicated to= " > >> out of srana. > > > I can't explain tijlan's views. > > For me "dedicated to..." is {tecu'u}, may be with a shade of {sinma} (i= .e. > > fi'o sia'rtersku) > > {finfriti} from jvs doesn't sound right for me (probably due to polysem= y > > of "to dedicqte"). > > >> -- > >> mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > >> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o > >> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) > > >> =A0-- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Grou= ps > > "Lojban Beginners" group. > > To view this discussion on the web visit > >https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/x2tg50HGg-oJ. > > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > > For more options, visit this group at > >http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den. > > > *** This Email was sent by a student at School for the Blind. > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Grou= ps > > "Lojban Beginners" group. > > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > > For more options, visit this group at > >http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den. > > -- > mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.