Received: from mail-gh0-f191.google.com ([209.85.160.191]:33269) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1Tidn2-0005X5-9J; Tue, 11 Dec 2012 20:19:36 -0800 Received: by mail-gh0-f191.google.com with SMTP id f1sf123636ghb.28 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2012 20:19:18 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=o2N5TJsQP3s8wg6YdcWMo8jjI3Asgj7hHNZpE3Wt1xA=; b=GrXOa1K7V3mgxydA45fs7mQ5B2pj6kdmftH60sksNwKc8Ix8/rbBOk9/gUCej11/Cp NP0k9HnS8COpl95uqsE4qU//DU1swwpuolK/QrheHd5olHVDUVDVQQI4zjqFRplWCsfz 7i6LJuVmgkGR/sCWxkaPbceOtZ8/OtTRNopL58InD7ZH9UjYjLgHMOpI2Vezk3/TAyif P1RAdaBjEhau2LnrEdl03WBdy1Jq/bfZdUUdn83meGLtS59udheIxKhci7choQCllDOR 4yHdlzMk5mvTyz3Kc4cyrkvtsFOaAFQJqkB16YAW2Ximv4zUDQDUEkfiO9rZOK8RUJ9p j+GA== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=o2N5TJsQP3s8wg6YdcWMo8jjI3Asgj7hHNZpE3Wt1xA=; b=DP8/1cacxsSwZNfUkbOWJL6KUx2BCKOqu9aPbuAob5ntL49ZmWd34nIgD20yPbzgdN qMOnbO8k69qznxgfBM+C+CDmMv4OvLUVDwdYiJZX1VszYPJpAGmohb8/P6XixUE+tmaB +VkKSxD4Q5g87fZaVXsrYV4nNVIfPqo1XNtIOOEVXx7DjhkDxnT8fC78Bshcm2c/1fma fjhHUPjmgFtrSg1hG/KJk9RQteu/M9ZT1rRmwqPzMFKtLBUgm1As7JXdnBwdcogFIwsN wfYX15spuyDsjwHcCMep1IKVWq0cnl0LVLXFu5pqhZx2+sSto3Vju+LIgNUEAMYf6ri7 YKqw== Received: by 10.49.116.115 with SMTP id jv19mr79473qeb.21.1355285957788; Tue, 11 Dec 2012 20:19:17 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.49.133.196 with SMTP id pe4ls873519qeb.34.gmail; Tue, 11 Dec 2012 20:19:16 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.58.213.170 with SMTP id nt10mr169785vec.10.1355285956443; Tue, 11 Dec 2012 20:19:16 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.58.213.170 with SMTP id nt10mr169784vec.10.1355285956388; Tue, 11 Dec 2012 20:19:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-vb0-f54.google.com (mail-vb0-f54.google.com [209.85.212.54]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id h20si2754820vdg.3.2012.12.11.20.19.16 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 11 Dec 2012 20:19:16 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of nictytan@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.54 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.212.54; Received: by mail-vb0-f54.google.com with SMTP id l1so248059vba.41 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2012 20:19:16 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.220.155.212 with SMTP id t20mr207964vcw.55.1355285956260; Tue, 11 Dec 2012 20:19:16 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.65.233 with HTTP; Tue, 11 Dec 2012 20:18:56 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <28196B0D-8424-4691-BE67-26CF57B9B4E4@asb.gaggle.net> References: <95cdbee4-7ddc-4f7d-bb48-4591b7c3d915@googlegroups.com> <50C10003.1080806@lojban.org> <5406c1d2-ee78-4b41-ab68-06b7cf99dce7@googlegroups.com> <20121207165143.GE26753@mercury.ccil.org> <12451bd9-6861-4830-a8d0-c5c5f382fe2c@googlegroups.com> <20121208030421.GB3174@mercury.ccil.org> <998450ae-4168-4aea-9fc6-ec695e7b7759@googlegroups.com> <28196B0D-8424-4691-BE67-26CF57B9B4E4@asb.gaggle.net> From: Jacob Errington Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 23:18:56 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: [bpfk] polysemy of {nai} To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: nictytan@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of nictytan@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.54 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=nictytan@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d0438949ffdf4e404d0a019e9 X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.1 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / Content-Length: 13023 --f46d0438949ffdf4e404d0a019e9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I don't know where in chapter five the cll might give the impression that the bridi excludes the selbri in some way. A bridi is a predication, and a predication can be a sentence, but it isn't necessarily one. Much like in natural languages, you can nest "sentences" in Lojban. e.g. .i mi djica lo du'u lo mudri cu se fagri -> "I know that the wood is on fire." The catch is that not all sentences in Lojban are bridi {.i ui} is a valid sentence, but it is not a bridi. Strictly speaking, the simplest bridi is just a selbri, e.g. {.i citka}, as all the sumti are therefore implied to be filled with {zo'e}. But a bridi *must* have sumti. .i mi'e la tsani mu'o On 11 December 2012 16:00, Annie wrote: > oh wow. what other dames do you have for that book? speaking of cll, it > looks to me, from chapter 5, that a bridi is a sentence without the selbri. > am i understanding this correctly because if so, why would you want to use > a bunch of sumti without a selbri? the sentence wouldn't make s5se, it > seems. > > Sent from my iPod > > On Dec 11, 2012, at 2:03 PM, Jacob Errington wrote: > > Sorry... I just think it's cool that it has a whole bunch of names and > well, we're also known for giving long-winded answers for no real reason, > haha. > > .i mi'e la tsani mu'o > > On 11 December 2012 13:29, Annie wrote: > >> You could have just said "CLL". >> >> Sent from my iPod >> >> On Dec 11, 2012, at 11:50 AM, Jacob Errington wrote: >> >> It's one of the CLL's many names. >> * The Complete Lojban Language >> * The Red Book >> * The Codex Woldemar >> * The Book >> >> It's the language's complete grammar description. Orika Okrent, who wrote >> "In the Land of Invented Languages" says that the CLL is one of the most >> complete grammatical descriptions of any constructed language. Calling it >> "The Red Book" stems from the colour of the cover, whereas "The Codex >> Woldemar" which is just an overly fancy way of referring to it, comes from >> its author's name, John Woldemar Cowan. >> >> .i mi'e la tsani mu'o >> >> On 11 December 2012 10:39, Annie wrote: >> >>> >>> what is the red book? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *** This Email was sent by a student at School for the Blind. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Lojban Beginners" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> *** This Email was sent by a student at School for the Blind. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Lojban Beginners" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > > > > > > > *** This Email was sent by a student at School for the Blind. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --f46d0438949ffdf4e404d0a019e9 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I don't know where in chapter five the cll might give the impression th= at the bridi excludes the selbri in some way. A bridi is a predication, and= a predication can be a sentence, but it isn't necessarily one. Much li= ke in natural languages, you can nest "sentences" in Lojban.=A0 e.g. .i mi djica lo du'u lo mudri cu se fagri -> "I know that t= he wood is on fire."

The catch is that not all sentences in Loj= ban are bridi {.i ui} is a valid sentence, but it is not a bridi.

Strictly speaking, the simplest bridi is just a selbri,= e.g. {.i citka}, as all the sumti are therefore implied to be filled with = {zo'e}. But a bridi *must* have sumti.

.i mi&#= 39;e la tsani mu'o

On 11 December 2012 16:00, Annie <park.annie@asb.gaggle.net> wrote:
oh wow. what other dames do you have for that book? = speaking of cll, it looks to me, from chapter 5, that a bridi is a sentence= without the selbri. am i understanding this correctly because if so, why w= ould you want to use a bunch of sumti without a selbri? the sentence wouldn= 't make s5se, it seems.

Sent from my iPod

On Dec 11, 2012,= at 2:03 PM, Jacob Errington <nictytan@gmail.com> wrote:

Sorry... I just think it's cool that it has a whole bunch of names= and well, we're also known for giving long-winded answers for no real = reason, haha.

.i mi'e la tsani mu'o

On 11 December 2012 13:29, Annie <park.annie@asb.gaggle.net>= ; wrote:
You could have just said "CLL".

Sen= t from my iPod

On Dec 11, 2012, at 11:50 AM, Jacob = Errington <nicty= tan@gmail.com> wrote:

It's one of the CLL's many= names.
* The Complete Lojban Language
* The Red Book
* The Codex Woldemar
* The Book

It= 9;s the language's complete grammar description. Orika Okrent, who wrot= e "In the Land of Invented Languages" says that the CLL is one of= the most complete grammatical descriptions of any constructed language. Ca= lling it "The Red Book" stems from the colour of the cover, where= as "The Codex Woldemar" which is just an overly fancy way of refe= rring to it, comes from its author's name, John Woldemar Cowan.

.i mi'e la tsani mu'o

On 11 December 2012 10:39, Annie <park.annie@asb.gaggle.n= et> wrote:
=
what is the red book?





*** This Email was sent by a student= at School for the Blind.

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*** This= Email was sent by a student at School for the Blind.

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*** This Email was sent by a student at School for th= e Blind.

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