Received: from mail-ye0-f184.google.com ([209.85.213.184]:38445) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1TqzZx-0005aD-IX; Thu, 03 Jan 2013 21:12:36 -0800 Received: by mail-ye0-f184.google.com with SMTP id r12sf9453790yen.11 for ; Thu, 03 Jan 2013 21:12:19 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-received:x-beenthere:x-received:x-received:received-spf :mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=7fwGsgqOO6EhS5UWLW+FzVDyyhvxqka94XKf7xTe9FY=; b=s+Nr9JI6ecy/1jYgoAnaGXIc7jFOL4MMyvLYq848AOmfOOX2Uk66ejWUibBfnts9wx F4utE81i9sY0JSOQLNdOPxrM9snJtztesnrAfprfSPRe+DGE2wNy8gYL/cubVgcXs41n JBd2HRYiMRPIH2EH7yPMZL0orKP3LGIsmFU6MYpdJc6ArC7edOK4Ld2AlLHAB2gXYn1Q OgBBqTeWdmfHzM6CulZlYAtGXBjJeIwGX+2ciYn//iJMmajWJfGBMlixWEoyEIxI//Jg Vnbkq2Ik0024D6L7XzIOdWiDidEYj9Cu20UtKnSeODvEDNFReKjWhTpkfhNautMWO+6z b4gA== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:x-beenthere:x-received:x-received:received-spf :mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=7fwGsgqOO6EhS5UWLW+FzVDyyhvxqka94XKf7xTe9FY=; b=fo2LCNXtxdJIbXst4TolPRXujyl8gSFlfoWtQRERH/QsdMH8ttrhZ6w/XsW6KtlZ7J 0XtKbgsLNJazaVi0GKVt94o79UMLD3ljeqnsVQ4nL0e14TTnV2eehVkMcEt8GWi8kNNm p7w7e8zc+4yC0YeM0TkAxxDQDoM05QDeKOVlzO9Aw5RQ9m4MnYS5VACSoOYDzMsHfpwu n856Qg0o0IUcUyAA6oKWXiaOIOK78ttoXVwb1GJ9zd9YeoYmgx+qCvw/p/8Yu6gZK+WT mZkjGAXDRRR5wibCxK7hOfvSTyXMcY/aCfKeqOfzt3Fqfg0uIw9RP/TeiEMLOBsMumAb jxTA== X-Received: by 10.49.116.139 with SMTP id jw11mr8672753qeb.12.1357276338862; Thu, 03 Jan 2013 21:12:18 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.49.96.68 with SMTP id dq4ls7601230qeb.16.gmail; Thu, 03 Jan 2013 21:12:17 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.59.0.194 with SMTP id ba2mr25860269ved.19.1357276337532; Thu, 03 Jan 2013 21:12:17 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.59.0.194 with SMTP id ba2mr25860268ved.19.1357276337512; Thu, 03 Jan 2013 21:12:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-vb0-f48.google.com (mail-vb0-f48.google.com [209.85.212.48]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id d17si16028158vdt.1.2013.01.03.21.12.17 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 03 Jan 2013 21:12:17 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.48 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.212.48; Received: by mail-vb0-f48.google.com with SMTP id fc21so16069155vbb.35 for ; Thu, 03 Jan 2013 21:12:17 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.52.69.201 with SMTP id g9mr65337369vdu.98.1357276337365; Thu, 03 Jan 2013 21:12:17 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.59.9.73 with HTTP; Thu, 3 Jan 2013 21:11:57 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <999A7608-07F2-4B88-BC4E-A14D56B28CF5@asb.gaggle.net> From: Luke Bergen Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 00:11:57 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Should/Ought To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.48 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lukeabergen@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf307d0182f3629c04d26f8536 X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.1 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / Content-Length: 17376 --20cf307d0182f3629c04d26f8536 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Correct. In fact, even simpler: tanru. ta tcebra gerku zdani => "That is a huge dog house" "tcebarda" is a lujvo, "gerku" and "zdani" are each gismu. But the whole thing "tcebarda gerku zdani" is the "selbri". On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 12:04 AM, Alex Rozenshteyn wrote: > In that case, though, it's not the word acting as the selbri but the > phrase. > > > On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 11:06 PM, Luke Bergen wrote: > >> And in fact, by using {me}, just about anything can be coerced into >> acting as a selbri. e.g. mi me li ci "I am the number 3" >> >> >> On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 11:03 PM, .arpis. wrote: >> >>> Annie, lujvo and gismu refer to properties of the words themselves, >>> while selbri refers to how the word is used in a sentence. Because in >>> lojban there is no hard divide (like there is in English) between, for >>> example, words which are verbs, adjectives, adverbs, and nouns, lujvo, >>> gismu, and even a few cmavo can be used as selbri. >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 10:34 PM, Annie wrote: >>> >>>> i may not know what i'm talking about, but the best word would >>>> definately either be selbri or attitudinal. >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPod >>>> >>>> On Jan 2, 2013, at 2:45 PM, MorphemeAddict wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 3:37 PM, Jonathan Jones wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 1:09 PM, .arpis. wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> ju'o so'i roi retsku .i ku'i ji'a sai mi krefu retsku di'e .i fanva >>>>>> zo'oi should fu ma to mu'i zoi gy. I should eat .gy. joi zoi gy. I should >>>>>> go to the gym .gy. to mabla me zo zoi javni toi toi >>>>>> >>>>>> "I'm sure it's been asked many times before; even so, I ask it again: >>>>>> How does one translate "should" (e.g. "I should eat", "I should go to the >>>>>> gym" (Damned "zoi" rules))? >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> With gismu: >>>>> >>>> >>>> I'm a little unsure about the proper Lojban word for what I mean here >>>> (selbri?), but it seems to me that using "gismu" is overly specific. >>>> Similar for "attitudinal" when "cmavo" would apply. Those two categories >>>> cover all the bases (since names can't do the job). >>>> >>>> stevo >>>> >>>>> >>>>> mi bilga lonu citka >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> With attitudinal (although I wouldn't be surprised if there's >>>>> disagreement on this one): >>>>> >>>>> mi citka.ei >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> mu'o mi'e .arpis. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>> lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >>>>> >>>>> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >>>>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com >>>>> . >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *** This Email was sent by a student at School for the Blind. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> mu'o mi'e .arpis. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Lojban Beginners" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >> > > > > -- > Alex R > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --20cf307d0182f3629c04d26f8536 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Correct. =A0In fact, even simpler: tanru.

ta tcebra gerk= u zdani =A0=3D> =A0"That is a huge dog house"

"tcebarda" is a lujvo, "gerku" and "zdani= " are each gismu. =A0But the whole thing "tcebarda gerku zdani&qu= ot; is the "selbri".

On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 12:04 AM, Alex R= ozenshteyn <rpglover64@gmail.com> wrote:
In that case, though, it's not the word acting as the = selbri but the phrase.


On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 11:06 PM,= Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
And in fact, by using {me}, just about anyth= ing can be coerced into acting as a selbri. =A0e.g. =A0mi me li ci =A0"= ;I am the number 3"


On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 11:03 PM, .a= rpis. <rpglover64+jbobau@gmail.com> wrote:
Annie, lujvo and gismu refe= r to properties of the words themselves, while selbri refers to how the wor= d is used in a sentence. Because in lojban there is no hard divide (like th= ere is in English) between, for example, words which are verbs, adjectives,= adverbs, and nouns, lujvo, gismu, and even a few cmavo can be used as selb= ri.


On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 10:34 PM, Annie <park.annie@asb.gaggle.n= et> wrote:
i may not know what i= 'm talking about, but the best word would definately either be selbri o= r attitudinal.

Sent from my iPod

On Jan 2, 2013, at 2:45 PM, M= orphemeAddict <ly= tlesw@gmail.com> wrote:



On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 3:37 PM, Jon= athan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 1:09 PM, .arpis. <rpglover64+jbobau@gmail.com> wrote:
ju'o so'i roi retsku .i ku'i ji'a sai= mi krefu retsku di'e .i fanva zo'oi should fu ma to mu'i zoi g= y. I should eat .gy. joi zoi gy. I should go to the gym .gy. to mabla me zo= zoi javni toi toi

"I'm sure it's been asked many times before; even so= , I ask it again: How does one translate "should" (e.g. "I s= hould eat", "I should go to the gym" (Damned "zoi"= rules))?

With gismu:
=

I'm a little unsure about the proper L= ojban word for what I mean here (selbri?), but it seems to me that using &q= uot;gismu" is overly specific. Similar for "attitudinal" whe= n "cmavo" would apply. Those two categories cover all the bases (= since names can't do the job).=A0

stevo

mi bilga lonu citka


With attitudinal (alt= hough I wouldn't be surprised if there's disagreement on this one):=

mi citka.ei
=A0
--
mu'o mi= 'e .arpis.

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--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai = ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
=

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*** This Emai= l was sent by a student at School for the Blind.

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--
mu'o mi= 'e .arpis.

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--
=A0=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Alex R

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--20cf307d0182f3629c04d26f8536--