On S= un, Jan 6, 2013 at 2:15 PM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sun, Jan 6, 2013 at 12:= 02 PM, Annie <park.annie@asb.gaggle.net> wrote:

in statements that include prepositions in english, = do you have prepositions in lojban, or are they included in the selbri?
=

Prepositions =3D=3D brid= i. The selbri is the thing which describes what relationship the prepositio= n is about.

=A0
Sent fr= om my iPod

On Jan 5, 2013, at 6:19 PM, Jonathan Jon= es <eyeonus@gmail= .com> wrote:

On Sat,= Jan 5, 2013 at 4:51 PM, Annie <park.annie@asb.gaggle.net><= /span> wrote:

i've looked up what a predicate is, and, to me, = it sounds like the predicate is the selbri.
Yes.
=A0

therefore, how can there be such a thing as a predic= ate relation? isn't that a selbri relation, which doesn't make senc= e?

Yes, a predicate relation is a selb= ri relation. In Lojban, everything is expressed as a relationship.

For example, when you say {ta gerku}, you're saying "That'= s a dog", but to be completely literal, what you're saying is &quo= t;The thing I'm pointing to over there (which is what {ta} means), has = the relationship "something is a dog of species something".

The selbri, or in English the predicate, is the thing which tells you w= hat the relationship is, while the sumti, or in English the arguments, are = the things that are a part of that relationship.

Another example:
{mi xabju lo zdani}
"I live in a house."
"The thin= g which is me and the thing which is a house have the relationship "so= mething lives in something", with 'me' being the first somethi= ng, and 'a house' being the second something."
=A0

Sent fro= m my iPod

On Jan 3, 2013, at 11:39 PM, Jonathan Jon= es <eyeonus@gmail= .com> wrote:

Basically, anything that has a pla= ce structure can be a selbri. "selbri", by the way, is a lujvo fo= rmed from "se bridi". The definition of bridi is:

x1 is a predicate relationship with relation x2 among arguments x3

The x2 is the relation, which is where selbri comes fro= m: sb1=3Db2 is the relation of predicate relationship sb2=3Db1 among argume= nts sb3=3Db3 (Note: bN is the place in the def. of bridi, sbN is the place = in the def. of selbri).

On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 10:11 PM, Luke B= ergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
Correct. =A0In fact, even simpler: tanru.

ta tcebra gerk= u zdani =A0=3D> =A0"That is a huge dog house"

"tcebarda" is a lujvo, "gerku" and "zdani= " are each gismu. =A0But the whole thing "tcebarda gerku zdani&qu= ot; is the "selbri".

On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 12:04 AM, Alex R= ozenshteyn <rpglover64@gmail.com> wrote:

In that case, though, it's not the word acting as the = selbri but the phrase.

On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 11:06 PM, Luke Bergen <= span dir=3D"ltr"><lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:

And in fact, by using {me}, just about anyth= ing can be coerced into acting as a selbri. =A0e.g. =A0mi me li ci =A0"= ;I am the number 3"

On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 11:03 PM, .a= rpis. <rpglover64+jbobau@gmail.com> wrote:

Annie, lujvo and gismu refe= r to properties of the words themselves, while selbri refers to how the wor= d is used in a sentence. Because in lojban there is no hard divide (like th= ere is in English) between, for example, words which are verbs, adjectives,= adverbs, and nouns, lujvo, gismu, and even a few cmavo can be used as selb= ri.

On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 10:34 PM, Annie <park.annie@asb.gaggle.n= et> wrote:

i may not know what i= 'm talking about, but the best word would definately either be selbri o= r attitudinal.

Sent from my iPod

On Jan 2, 2013, at 2:45 PM, M= orphemeAddict <ly= tlesw@gmail.com> wrote:

On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 3:37 PM, Jon= athan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:

On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 1:09 PM, .arpis. <rpglover64+jbobau@gmail.com> wrote:

ju'o so'i roi retsku .i ku'i ji'a sai= mi krefu retsku di'e .i fanva zo'oi should fu ma to mu'i zoi g= y. I should eat .gy. joi zoi gy. I should go to the gym .gy. to mabla me zo= zoi javni toi toi

"I'm sure it's been asked many times before; even so= , I ask it again: How does one translate "should" (e.g. "I s= hould eat", "I should go to the gym" (Damned "zoi"= rules))?

With gismu:
=

I'm a little unsure about the proper L= ojban word for what I mean here (selbri?), but it seems to me that using &q= uot;gismu" is overly specific. Similar for "attitudinal" whe= n "cmavo" would apply. Those two categories cover all the bases (= since names can't do the job).=A0

stevo

mi bilga lonu citka

With attitudinal (alt= hough I wouldn't be surprised if there's disagreement on this one):=

mi citka.ei
=A0

--
mu'o mi= 'e .arpis.

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mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai = ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
=

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mu'o mi= 'e .arpis.

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=A0=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Alex R

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= mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa = bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am yo= ur father. :D )

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mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l= uk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. = :D )

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mu'o mi'e .aion= ys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu= do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

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