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[209.68.5.17]) by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id x4si948841igm.0.2013.01.10.12.25.25; Thu, 10 Jan 2013 12:25:25 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 209.68.5.17 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of m3o@plasmatix.com) client-ip=209.68.5.17; Received: (qmail 58084 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2013 20:25:25 -0000 Received: from 84.175.65.74 (HELO ?192.168.2.100?) (84.175.65.74) by relay03.pair.com with SMTP; 10 Jan 2013 20:25:25 -0000 X-pair-Authenticated: 84.175.65.74 Message-ID: <50EF23AB.2090707@plasmatix.com> Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 21:25:15 +0100 From: selpa'i User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130107 Thunderbird/17.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Numbers of unspecified objects References: <45fb9e90-aca8-4ebb-8731-64867a16ec68@googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: <45fb9e90-aca8-4ebb-8731-64867a16ec68@googlegroups.com> X-Original-Sender: m3o@plasmatix.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 209.68.5.17 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of m3o@plasmatix.com) smtp.mail=m3o@plasmatix.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / Content-Length: 1883 la .din. cu cusku di'e > When you want to use a number of unspecified things in lojban, for > example: "Three are going" or "Five are blue-green" , what would one use? > {mu cu blari'o} and {mu zo'e blari'o} sounded grammatically incorrect. *{mu cu klama} is indeed not grammatical, but {mu zo'e klama} is. > {li mu cu blari'o} would refer to the number 5 being blue-green, right? Correct. "The number five is blue-green." > Using {mei} would be a possibility, but it would imply they did/are that > en masse, which means it wouldn't work with for example {klama} The definition of {mei} that uses a mass and a set is old. Many people do not use it with the mass-sense anymore, I don't. Whether or not the mei-construct acts as a mass (non-distributively) or individually (distributively) is left up to context with this new definition of {mei}. So, {mei} is a very good option here: lo ci mei cu klama "Three are going." > I expect a simple construct, since in lojban it generally is made easy > to choose what you want to include and what not. Apart from {mei}, you can also use {da}: ci da klama "There exist three things that are going." You generally need to be a little bit more careful with {da}, which is a logical variable, especially if negation or additional logical variables are used in the same sentence. I won't go into the details since it seems you're just starting out. Just know that {da} can be a good option as well, but you're on the safe side with {mei}. mu'o mi'e la selpa'i -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.