Received: from mail-ia0-f183.google.com ([209.85.210.183]:45769) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1TuDEH-0003O4-1f; Sat, 12 Jan 2013 18:23:29 -0800 Received: by mail-ia0-f183.google.com with SMTP id k27sf673146iad.0 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2013 18:23:14 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-received:x-beenthere:x-received:x-received:received-spf :mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=yg+iu3pubZIiKv6JtIMbrPXwBG0W9Yn0spoBcKqfJjM=; b=bquuZCWgOfPW7l7qqY4LaQ1SwKuxAyxPSvmKPqlplAk4tQ78nsKmdk5TlUBsnoxiHq cNgkhnp0tz0pSJo0edCNMw7EDEwoY8zxYDWzqt+z5eRK4soOQVZKFwxB/9a0LEKuFWsR WsiYzlmFnYMSgrkEckYjOpJ7CtJQOSi16vni7OUoPOLIXgJJnqgMSVxYMDmobVQld6gj s72jmbnicaa5uKH98iUBqpWl57Oty36+3XyOOqmCbcxeF0RulcfFICySYDteQrgPN4l3 /EpgDvRjyaVAybXcdAYbqpI8edpSJjBE1Il9w0Ruz15BTFehpR8VVyp0pI+JwWkeibj2 vmXw== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:x-beenthere:x-received:x-received:received-spf :mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=yg+iu3pubZIiKv6JtIMbrPXwBG0W9Yn0spoBcKqfJjM=; b=Hr954gTE72zNWi9BfAxNl/qreUR1v8u3e9lRWeCv09Yz+RW0umdyZJm0FTLe4pUY83 74EExaMhStgiKk4TWp4RvjNk/Q+yXthjjln1BSOH5rqHROU7vsoWPLjOYOvvi+g8ahRi ziIIFA71dhsbhJKtzH1++QrfNXPre7deDMpo9xzaEUpXwvG58gDhKovTOGf7PpQxXn0R LDmLuptqsL+SoYtVujtMxKlk3Jxry0+wtZS/+unizDxQS+1kPFkzSRhyWIcNFZOMWq1h iVdypyd9dtLPk57vmVEtbWJkd7hFZ1hJ9cRKs5E4VROBTsAFMC/tynm6y2aavZn73dbj VeNA== X-Received: by 10.50.34.231 with SMTP id c7mr975883igj.8.1358043794724; Sat, 12 Jan 2013 18:23:14 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.50.33.199 with SMTP id t7ls1357529igi.30.gmail; Sat, 12 Jan 2013 18:23:13 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.50.159.193 with SMTP id xe1mr3475257igb.0.1358043793795; Sat, 12 Jan 2013 18:23:13 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.50.159.193 with SMTP id xe1mr3475255igb.0.1358043793775; Sat, 12 Jan 2013 18:23:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ob0-f176.google.com (mail-ob0-f176.google.com [209.85.214.176]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ge7si416298igb.0.2013.01.12.18.23.13 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sat, 12 Jan 2013 18:23:13 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.176 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.176; Received: by mail-ob0-f176.google.com with SMTP id un3so2917456obb.21 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2013 18:23:13 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.60.172.229 with SMTP id bf5mr47736365oec.81.1358043793610; Sat, 12 Jan 2013 18:23:13 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.60.178.237 with HTTP; Sat, 12 Jan 2013 18:23:13 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <220A81A2-EC08-4197-BC63-F55B19A0C6BB@asb.gaggle.net> <40DF8C3E-8408-43BC-AFE1-AC66E3236E5A@asb.gaggle.net> Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 19:23:13 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: APE: Lojban haiku From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.176 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec54ee86ce8592e04d32235db X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.1 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / Content-Length: 8516 --bcaec54ee86ce8592e04d32235db Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Sat, Jan 12, 2013 at 7:16 PM, Ross Ogilvie wrote: > "difficult to imagine" is one assertion > The other one is first asserting that it is being imagined, and then also > saying you feeling that the imagining is difficult. > No. UI do not assert anything. They merely express the attitude of the speaker. This is why they are called "attitudinals". Their purpose is to easily convey the current emotional mindset of the speaker. > On 13/01/2013 12:48 PM, "Annie" wrote: > >> what exactly is the difference between difficult to imagine and the >> imagining being difficult? >> >> Sent from my iPod >> >> On Jan 12, 2013, at 5:05 AM, Ross Ogilvie wrote: >> >> It's more about the sentence structure and assertion. When you say >> "difficult to imagine", the main assertion is about the difficulty. In the >> sentence {lo si'o ciska lo ro fa'oma'o cu xanri} the main assertion (the >> selbri) is about imagining (xanri). Adding fu'inai after xanri is like >> huffing to indicate that you find the imaging is difficult. >> >> mu'o mi'e ros >> >> On 12 January 2013 09:24, Annie wrote: >> >>> e >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Lojban Beginners" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> *** This Email was sent by a student at School for the Blind. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Lojban Beginners" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > -- mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --bcaec54ee86ce8592e04d32235db Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Sat, Jan 12, 2013 at 7:16 PM, Ross Ogilvie <ross@rossogilvie.id.au> wrote:

"difficult to imagine" is one assertion
The other one is first asserting that it is being imagined, and then also s= aying you feeling that the imagining is difficult.

No= . UI do not assert anything. They merely express the attitude of the speake= r. This is why they are called "attitudinals". Their purpose is t= o easily convey the current emotional mindset of the speaker.
=A0
On 13/01/2013 12:48 PM, "Annie" <park.annie@asb= .gaggle.net> wrote:
what exactly is the difference between difficult to = imagine and the imagining being difficult?

Sent from my iPod

On Jan 12, 2013, at 5:05 AM, Ross Ogilvie <ross@rossogilvie.id.au> wrote:=

It's more about the sentence structure and assertion. When yo= u say "difficult to imagine", the main assertion is about the dif= ficulty. In the sentence {lo si'o ciska lo ro fa'oma'o cu xanri= } the main assertion (the selbri) is about imagining (xanri). Adding fu'= ;inai after xanri is like huffing to indicate that you find the imaging is = difficult.

mu'o mi'e ros

On 12 January 2013 09:24, Annie <park.annie@asb.gaggle.ne= t> wrote:
e


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For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/g= roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.





*** This Email was sent by a s= tudent at School for the Blind.

--
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To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
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--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l= uk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. = :D )

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To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.
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