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Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Relative phrases &c on {la} sumti
From: Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com>
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{la broda be ko'a be'o noi brode} is "the one named "broda be ko'a be'o noi
brode"". {lo broda be ko'a ku noi brode} is "the one named "broda be ko'a"
which incidentally brodes". Relative clauses attached to the relativized
sumti themselves are still part of the name: {la broda be ko'a noi brode}
is "the one named "broda be ko'a noi brode"", and does not assert that
{ko'a brode}.

Does that answer your question? I'm not 100% sure I understand the original
question.

mi'e la latro'a mu'o

On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 11:37 AM, mudri <jammyatjammy@gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks; that answers it. Except, what happens with linked sumti ({be})?
>
>
> On Friday, 18 January 2013 16:21:48 UTC, Ian Johnson wrote:
>
>> This depends on whether you're using a cmevla (not a cmene, ta'o; selbri
>> names are cmene too) or a selbri name. With a selbri name things are clean:
>> a relative clause before the ku is in the name, a relative clause after the
>> ku is not. This does mean, somewhat annoyingly, that {la latro'a noi bebna}
>> is "the one named "latro'a noi bebna"".  With a cmevla name, you can't
>> attach a relative clause inside the name after the cmevla starts, so that
>> {la .latros. noi bebna} attaches a relative clause to {la .latros.}. Note
>> that {la noi bebna .latros.} is valid, and is "the one named "noi bebna
>> latros"".
>>
>> mi'e la latro'a mu'o
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 10:59 AM, mudri <jammya...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> If a sumti prefixed with {la} (with either a selbri or cmene inside) has
>>> an associated relative clause/phrase or linked sumti, how much of these are
>>> part of the name, and how much are just extra information? There are
>>> situations where both are useful.
>>>
>>> --
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>>> .
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>>
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--20cf307d04d21121c004d3931fac
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{la broda be ko&#39;a be&#39;o noi brode} is &quot;the one named &quot;brod=
a be ko&#39;a be&#39;o noi brode&quot;&quot;. {lo broda be ko&#39;a ku noi =
brode} is &quot;the one named &quot;broda be ko&#39;a&quot; which incidenta=
lly brodes&quot;. Relative clauses attached to the relativized sumti themse=
lves are still part of the name: {la broda be ko&#39;a noi brode} is &quot;=
the one named &quot;broda be ko&#39;a noi brode&quot;&quot;, and does not a=
ssert that {ko&#39;a brode}. <br>
<br>Does that answer your question? I&#39;m not 100% sure I understand the =
original question.<br><br>mi&#39;e la latro&#39;a mu&#39;o<br><br><div clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 11:37 AM, mudri <span dir=3D"ltr"=
>&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jammyatjammy@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">jammyatjam=
my@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Thanks; that answers it. Except, what happen=
s with linked sumti ({be})?<div class=3D"im"><br><br>On Friday, 18 January =
2013 16:21:48 UTC, Ian Johnson  wrote:</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;borde=
r-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"im">This depends on w=
hether you&#39;re using a cmevla (not a cmene, ta&#39;o; selbri names are c=
mene too) or a selbri name. With a selbri name things are clean: a relative=
 clause before the ku is in the name, a relative clause after the ku is not=
. This does mean, somewhat annoyingly, that {la latro&#39;a noi bebna} is &=
quot;the one named &quot;latro&#39;a noi bebna&quot;&quot;.=A0 With a cmevl=
a name, you can&#39;t attach a relative clause inside the name after the cm=
evla starts, so that {la .latros. noi bebna} attaches a relative clause to =
{la .latros.}. Note that {la noi bebna .latros.} is valid, and is &quot;the=
 one named &quot;noi bebna latros&quot;&quot;.<br>

<br>mi&#39;e la latro&#39;a mu&#39;o<br><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote=
"><div class=3D"im">On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 10:59 AM, mudri <span dir=3D"lt=
r">&lt;<a>jammya...@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-l=
eft:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"im">If a sumti prefixed =
with {la} (with either a selbri or cmene inside) has an associated relative=
 clause/phrase or linked sumti, how much of these are part of the name, and=
 how much are just extra information? There are situations where both are u=
seful.

</div><span><font color=3D"#888888"><div class=3D"im"><p></p>

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</div></font></span></blockquote></div><br>
</blockquote><div class=3D"im">

<p></p>

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<div class=3D"h5">
<br>=20
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br>

<p></p>

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