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Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 11:02:37 -0800 (PST)
From: mudri <jammyatjammy@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Relative phrases &c on {la} sumti
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Actually, I realise that it's kind of stupid trying to take the {be} 
outside the name.

On Friday, 18 January 2013 17:05:41 UTC, Ian Johnson wrote:
>
> {la broda be ko'a be'o noi brode} is "the one named "broda be ko'a be'o 
> noi brode"". {lo broda be ko'a ku noi brode} is "the one named "broda be 
> ko'a" which incidentally brodes". Relative clauses attached to the 
> relativized sumti themselves are still part of the name: {la broda be ko'a 
> noi brode} is "the one named "broda be ko'a noi brode"", and does not 
> assert that {ko'a brode}. 
>
> Does that answer your question? I'm not 100% sure I understand the 
> original question.
>
> mi'e la latro'a mu'o
>
> On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 11:37 AM, mudri <jammya...@gmail.com <javascript:>
> > wrote:
>
>> Thanks; that answers it. Except, what happens with linked sumti ({be})?
>>
>>
>> On Friday, 18 January 2013 16:21:48 UTC, Ian Johnson wrote:
>>
>>> This depends on whether you're using a cmevla (not a cmene, ta'o; selbri 
>>> names are cmene too) or a selbri name. With a selbri name things are clean: 
>>> a relative clause before the ku is in the name, a relative clause after the 
>>> ku is not. This does mean, somewhat annoyingly, that {la latro'a noi bebna} 
>>> is "the one named "latro'a noi bebna"".  With a cmevla name, you can't 
>>> attach a relative clause inside the name after the cmevla starts, so that 
>>> {la .latros. noi bebna} attaches a relative clause to {la .latros.}. Note 
>>> that {la noi bebna .latros.} is valid, and is "the one named "noi bebna 
>>> latros"".
>>>
>>> mi'e la latro'a mu'o
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 10:59 AM, mudri <jammya...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> If a sumti prefixed with {la} (with either a selbri or cmene inside) 
>>>> has an associated relative clause/phrase or linked sumti, how much of these 
>>>> are part of the name, and how much are just extra information? There are 
>>>> situations where both are useful. 
>>>>
>>>> -- 
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>>>> group/lojban-beginners?hl=en<http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en>
>>>> .
>>>>
>>>
>>>  -- 
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>
>

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Actually, I realise that it's kind of stupid trying to take the {be} outsid=
e the name.<br><br>On Friday, 18 January 2013 17:05:41 UTC, Ian Johnson  wr=
ote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex=
;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">{la broda be ko'a be'o noi=
 brode} is "the one named "broda be ko'a be'o noi brode"". {lo broda be ko'=
a ku noi brode} is "the one named "broda be ko'a" which incidentally brodes=
". Relative clauses attached to the relativized sumti themselves are still =
part of the name: {la broda be ko'a noi brode} is "the one named "broda be =
ko'a noi brode"", and does not assert that {ko'a brode}. <br>
<br>Does that answer your question? I'm not 100% sure I understand the orig=
inal question.<br><br>mi'e la latro'a mu'o<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote=
">On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 11:37 AM, mudri <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"=
javascript:" target=3D"_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto=3D"0hwtOekvGMAJ">jammy=
a...@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Thanks; that answers it. Except, what happen=
s with linked sumti ({be})?<div><br><br>On Friday, 18 January 2013 16:21:48=
 UTC, Ian Johnson  wrote:</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;borde=
r-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div>This depends on whether you're=
 using a cmevla (not a cmene, ta'o; selbri names are cmene too) or a selbri=
 name. With a selbri name things are clean: a relative clause before the ku=
 is in the name, a relative clause after the ku is not. This does mean, som=
ewhat annoyingly, that {la latro'a noi bebna} is "the one named "latro'a no=
i bebna"".&nbsp; With a cmevla name, you can't attach a relative clause ins=
ide the name after the cmevla starts, so that {la .latros. noi bebna} attac=
hes a relative clause to {la .latros.}. Note that {la noi bebna .latros.} i=
s valid, and is "the one named "noi bebna latros"".<br>

<br>mi'e la latro'a mu'o<br><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div>On Fr=
i, Jan 18, 2013 at 10:59 AM, mudri <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a>jammya...@gmail=
.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-l=
eft:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div>If a sumti prefixed with {la} (wi=
th either a selbri or cmene inside) has an associated relative clause/phras=
e or linked sumti, how much of these are part of the name, and how much are=
 just extra information? There are situations where both are useful.

</div><span><font color=3D"#888888"><div><p></p>

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</div></font></span></blockquote></div><br>
</blockquote><div>

<p></p>

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</div></div></blockquote></div><br>
</blockquote>

<p></p>

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