Received: from mail-yh0-f59.google.com ([209.85.213.59]:37519) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1U0DqW-0006jA-6h; Tue, 29 Jan 2013 08:15:45 -0800 Received: by mail-yh0-f59.google.com with SMTP id q11sf291696yhf.14 for ; Tue, 29 Jan 2013 08:15:34 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-received:x-beenthere:x-received:date:from:to:message-id :in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version:x-original-sender :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=VjaDVkb/QNAcaKORa7yH7gChHuelYD01pMawPZCV3qo=; b=bxLezKti50ibPAXkdgTPxoMnqxkT2/7+gKv/393E79mfWj6L020clxGWDwb/+EwG3P fqFfRJ7sWEkMH1jMjbyVkSySFMEqgHxAjyrrYRKRFhcOkdGBnSydmaZw5JYJFSEHDCVR Iyru9DwwuTeVmMKGaZqPZHOkzAKMxQpvcxNnfWjJdYrVm5PfPfkHkNnreRW2HPDBU7zj h/vj2JQGR2Q/yPiHc8xivIveXGkFajaPYjpLu/Y02ySMa17w0qbPXoMiKLEM78NttCJV mC2DJ0nQjJfauVjBo7EAk/84VuE/RhntzPuYBPhx0q698jvE/xFf3CAwgDUe920yEm49 7O5Q== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:x-beenthere:x-received:date:from:to:message-id :in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version:x-original-sender :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=VjaDVkb/QNAcaKORa7yH7gChHuelYD01pMawPZCV3qo=; b=fk3l2iwo8goiBVrKZRKX/levdOPbLu0dQSOPPMigopECss9m+sJUjkll2e7Z3ObCv5 mNfbFcfrmYIxr2AS5lGxlXDXbLVL32gT8j9OLheqdSvx7mG3w/EJ0JmBxlzY6kzxbTdK jF/BI50n4EUnBC7RqH8s3bFnlFD0dVjF1ZMWG7EySAONLCBt16lSIpkKeqRYnTVZM6oA YcZiLv0NboZbvjW7zYvaBUKKJgfLzEJsXIH3xguxcyWNzdeLCh5PVDazvCJrbu8It5dx tZrj6oWhXu9aVbjULUWfGmv6tkiVtv/AtYqViFGrIDvg4wxwh2PbqvGNazPwcobnHnkP DayA== X-Received: by 10.49.81.72 with SMTP id y8mr138724qex.42.1359476133728; Tue, 29 Jan 2013 08:15:33 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.49.119.3 with SMTP id kq3ls216533qeb.67.gmail; Tue, 29 Jan 2013 08:15:32 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.49.81.72 with SMTP id y8mr138720qex.42.1359476132408; Tue, 29 Jan 2013 08:15:32 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 08:15:31 -0800 (PST) From: la gleki To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Message-Id: <8ac423c1-1526-44bb-93ad-92d2443772c7@googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: References: <66cb3c0c-5aaf-44e3-be71-e330ad46129f@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] how to translate "velocity"? MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_50_33347076.1359476131827" X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.1 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / Content-Length: 7006 ------=_Part_50_33347076.1359476131827 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Tuesday, January 29, 2013 7:50:33 PM UTC+4, tsani wrote: > > On 29 January 2013 04:03, la gleki >wrote: > >> what is the word for "velocity" after all? >> dont tell me it's {nilsutra} >> velocity=length/time >> > > (I hate-await) > > latro'a and I devised a system for making arbitrary units in Lojban. Our > system involves making a zi'evla for every unit you want, and defining it > using a special kind of tanru. Working under the assumption that XI+PA > forms #FREE, we created two experimental cmavo: {pi'ai} (KE) and {te'ai} > (XI). > > {pi'ai} is used as a prefix to indicate that the unit-selbri are being > multiplied to form a new unit selbri. {te'ai} is used after a unit selbri > to exponentiate it. > We can easily create the units for velocity, m*s^-1, with this system as > follows: > 1) prefix the tanru with pi'ai; {pi'ai ...}* > 2) determine the unit selbri that we need: {mitre} and {snidu}; {pi'ai > mitre snidu}* > 3) exponentiate accordingly; {pi'ai mitre snidu te'ai ni'u pa} > > Because this new unit tanru is long, we need to make up a brivla for it > based on its components ideally. To indicate that it was created with this > method, we decided that prefixing it with pi'air- might be a good idea, but > perhaps that the prefix can be dropped contextually. > > {pi'airtredilsnidu = x1 measures x2 metres per second (by standard x3)} > = pi'ai mitre snidu te'ai ni'u pa > > Some of you may hate this system, and that's okay. It's not like I approve > of everything everyone does either. > I hate this system just because you have to create new zi'evla every time you use a new formula (yes, just like in natlangs!). But speed is just "Length/time". Just a simple formula. I wish someone could say here *Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem.* (entities should not be multiplied needlessly). i.e. i wish someone could express Length/time, not speed in a concise way. > > An example of defining the Newton: > {.i lo ka pi'airniutni cu ka ce'u pi'ai ki'ogra mitre snidu te'ai ni'u re > ce'u ce'u} > > I've been using {mitre} as a simplification for displacement. Obviously, > I'd need to construct some unit selbri for displacement, then use that in > these definitions above to get vectors. > > .i mi'e la tsani mu'o > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. ------=_Part_50_33347076.1359476131827 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Tuesday, January 29, 2013 7:50:33 PM UTC+4, tsani wrote:On 29 January 2013 04:03, la gleki <gleki.is...@gmail.com> wrote:
what is the word for "velocity" after all?
dont tell me it's= {nilsutra}
velocity=3Dlength/time

(I hate-await)

latro'a and I devised a sys= tem for making arbitrary units in Lojban. Our system involves making a zi'e= vla for every unit you want, and defining it using a special kind of tanru.= Working under the assumption that XI+PA forms #FREE, we created two experi= mental cmavo: {pi'ai} (KE) and {te'ai} (XI).

{pi'ai} is used as a prefix to indicate that the unit-s= elbri are being multiplied to form a new unit selbri. {te'ai} is used after= a unit selbri to exponentiate it.
We can easily create the units= for velocity, m*s^-1, with this system as follows: 
1) prefix the tanru with pi'ai; {pi'ai ...}*
2) determine th= e unit selbri that we need: {mitre} and {snidu}; {pi'ai mitre snidu}*
=
3) exponentiate accordingly; {pi'ai mitre snidu te'ai ni'u pa}

Because this new unit tanru is long, we need to make up= a brivla for it based on its components ideally. To indicate that it was c= reated with this method, we decided that prefixing it with pi'air- might be= a good idea, but perhaps that the prefix can be dropped contextually.

{pi'airtredilsnidu =3D x1 measures x2 metres per second= (by standard x3)}
=3D pi'ai mitre snidu te'ai ni'u pa
=
Some of you may hate this system, and that's okay. It's not = like I approve of everything everyone does either.
=

I hate this system just because you have to create new = zi'evla every time you use a new formula (yes, just like in natlangs!).
But speed is just "Length/time". Just a simple formula.
I wish someone could say here
Entia non sunt multip= licanda praeter necessitatem.
(entities should not be multipl= ied needlessly).

i.e. i wish someone could e= xpress Length/time, not speed in a concise way.
 

An example of defining the Newton:
{.i lo ka = pi'airniutni cu ka ce'u pi'ai ki'ogra mitre snidu te'ai ni'u re ce'u ce'u}<= /div>

I've been using {mitre} as a simplification for di= splacement. Obviously, I'd need to construct some unit selbri for displacem= ent, then use that in these definitions above to get vectors.

.i mi'e la tsani mu'o

--
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