On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 12:48 PM, Judson = Lester <nyarly@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm editing a flash card deck of lojban words for my o= wn use, and one of the things that's struck me is how often gismu const= rain the kinds of things in a position.

Most of the time= the constraint makes sense (at least in a "sure, I can see it" k= ind of way) but as I find more gismu where a position is defined as being a= person or an event (and all the ones that are {ka}) when the other way mig= ht make sense, I begin to wonder more and more why (or if?) the suggested k= inds for a place aren't merely a guidance.

For example, I'm just looking at

jenca:=A0x1 (event)= shocks/stuns x2

People aren't = shocking. Things people do, or in rare occasions some property of a person = are shocking.
=A0

What would be the problem with &qu= ot;do jenca mi"? =A0I suppose there's some elided abstraction that= I could use in the x1 place to mean "some event related to you" = - but why would that be neccesary?

Simply because the English "You shocked me= !" actually means "What you just did shocked me!". This has = to do with the issue "sumti raising", which has been bandied abou= t countless times throughout the years.
=A0

Or do I misunderstand - is th= e point that jenca describes a shock related to an event, and *therefore* &= quot;do jenca" implies that you did something shocking on the face of = it?

No, the point is that things don't shock, s= ome abstraction, usually an event (although I can imagine how properties (k= a) and even possibly ideas (si'o) could as well), which is /related/ to= the thing, is what shocks.

(The same thing for stunning. /I/ don't stun you, my hand doesn'= ;t stun you, the boxing glove I'm wearing doesn't stun you. It'= s the event of me slamming my fist into your face that stuns you.)
=A0

If it's the latter, are t= he other abstraction requirements (and other implied types) likewise looser= than I imagine?

The vast majority of abstraction places are loo= ser than depicted in that it may be possible to use an abstraction in that = place that isn't in the list (such as properties for lo jenca), but ver= y few abstraction places can take a concrete object.
=A0

Judson

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginn= ers?hl=3Den.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
=A0
=A0