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Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2013 12:41:42 -0700
Message-ID: <CAMKwHj1AB-oamgoUFEXPNBQPqfR98+=aGB=CCTogrrptmOwbEg@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] search for happiness. {sisku lo selgleki} or
 {sisku lo ka selgleki}?
From: Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com>
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On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 12:01 PM, v4hn <me@v4hn.de> wrote:

> On Sat, Feb 09, 2013 at 09:53:36AM -0700, Jonathan Jones wrote:
> > loka gleki
> >
> > On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 4:11 AM, la gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > search for happiness. {sisku lo selgleki} or {sisku lo ka selgleki}?
> > >
> > > Which translation is correct?
>
> As a literal translation, both are wrong.
> Literally it would have to be {sisku loka [ka gleki/kamgleki]} or even
> {sisku loka ka mi gleki}, I suppose.
>

You have too many ka's:

*-ness*
Appended to adjectives to form nouns meaning "the state of (the
adjective)", "the quality of (the adjective)", or "the measure of (the
adjective)".

It's the quality of "happy", not the quality of the quality of "happy".


> But I don't think this is what most people would mean by
> "searching for happiness". Probably something like
> {sisku loka ce'u se gleki vo'a} instead.
>
> Also, at the moment I consider property abstractions with more than one
> elided
> place as ill-formed, because interpreting them creates ambiguity and not
> just
> vagueness in my opinion.
>
> There is this rather new thread on sisku already, on this very topic.
> I still intend to reply to this, but didn't find the time until now
> to think about this some more...
> The question of whether {sisku lo selgleki [be vo'a]} _could_ be
> interpreted
> correctly dives rather deeply into the question how universes of discourse
> work in lojban(or anywhere). And people agreed that they do not agree
> or don't know as far as I can see.
>
>
> v4hn
>



-- 
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

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<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 12:01 PM, v4hn <span dir=
=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:me@v4hn.de" target=3D"_blank">me@v4hn.de</a>=
&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0=
 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div class=3D"im">On Sat, Feb 09, 2013 at 09:53:36AM -0700, Jonathan Jones =
wrote:<br>
&gt; loka gleki<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 4:11 AM, la gleki &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gleki.i=
s.my.name@gmail.com">gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; search for happiness. {sisku lo selgleki} or {sisku lo ka selglek=
i}?<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; Which translation is correct?<br>
<br>
</div>As a literal translation, both are wrong.<br>
Literally it would have to be {sisku loka [ka gleki/kamgleki]} or even<br>
{sisku loka ka mi gleki}, I suppose.<br></blockquote><div><br>You have too =
many ka&#39;s:<br><p><b>-ness</b></p>
Appended to adjectives to form nouns meaning &quot;the state of (the=20
adjective)&quot;, &quot;the quality of (the adjective)&quot;, or &quot;the =
measure of (the=20
adjective)&quot;.<br><br>It&#39;s the quality of &quot;happy&quot;, not the=
 quality of the quality of &quot;happy&quot;.<br>=A0</div><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padd=
ing-left:1ex">


But I don&#39;t think this is what most people would mean by<br>
&quot;searching for happiness&quot;. Probably something like<br>
{sisku loka ce&#39;u se gleki vo&#39;a} instead.<br>
<br>
Also, at the moment I consider property abstractions with more than one eli=
ded<br>
place as ill-formed, because interpreting them creates ambiguity and not ju=
st<br>
vagueness in my opinion.<br>
<br>
There is this rather new thread on sisku already, on this very topic.<br>
I still intend to reply to this, but didn&#39;t find the time until now<br>
to think about this some more...<br>
The question of whether {sisku lo selgleki [be vo&#39;a]} _could_ be interp=
reted<br>
correctly dives rather deeply into the question how universes of discourse<=
br>
work in lojban(or anywhere). And people agreed that they do not agree<br>
or don&#39;t know as far as I can see.<br>
<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
<br>
v4hn<br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>mu&#39;o =
mi&#39;e .aionys.<br><br>.i.e&#39;ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi=
.luk. mi patfu do zo&#39;o<br>(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father=
. :D )<br>

<p></p>

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