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From: Jacob Errington <nictytan@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2013 23:17:59 -0500
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Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] search for happiness. {sisku lo selgleki} or
 {sisku lo ka selgleki}?
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On 9 February 2013 22:14, v4hn <me@v4hn.de> wrote:

> On Sat, Feb 09, 2013 at 09:31:12PM -0500, Jacob Errington wrote:
> > On 9 February 2013 06:11, la gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > search for happiness. {sisku lo selgleki} or {sisku lo ka selgleki}?
> > >
> > > Which translation is correct?
> > >
> >
> > The second one, but probably not for the reasons you'd think.
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > With this definition, we can easily create a predicate meaning "to look
> for
> > properties that make you happy", e.g. {.i mi sisku lo ka mi gleki ce'u}.
>
> Didn't you mean to say events/states here instead of properties?
>

No, I did intend to say properties, due to my general philosophy about
Lojban predicates: if an intrinsic connection between a sumti and an
abstraction exists in a given selbri, then that abstraction is a property
of that sumti.
In some cases, this is more obvious than in other cases. What I consider to
be the most obvious case is {.i mi kakne lo nu do citka lo plise}.
Discovering the sheer nonsense of that sentence is what led me to believe
that ka-abstractions are of paramount importance in Lojban.


> That's what gleki2 is supposed to be. Mixing up terms here is confusing.


It's been said in at least a few other posts, perhaps on this list, perhaps
on the main list, that the type restrictions in brackets in the gismu list
are not prescriptive. In fact, I've seen jcowan say that these restrictions
where added in order to warn against implicit raising, which was, at the
time that the list was made, the major concern with regards to abstraction
places.
That being said, the gismu list simply tells us that the x2 must be an
abstraction, with the *suggestion* that it should be an event or state. I
disagree with that suggestion, and due to its non-prescriptive nature, am
entitled to use a ka-abstraction there.

.i mi'e la tsani mu'o

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On 9 February 2013 22:14, v4hn <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:me@v=
4hn.de" target=3D"_blank">me@v4hn.de</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><div class=3D=
"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;=
border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">

<div class=3D"im">On Sat, Feb 09, 2013 at 09:31:12PM -0500, Jacob Errington=
 wrote:<br>
&gt; On 9 February 2013 06:11, la gleki &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gleki.is.my.n=
ame@gmail.com">gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; &gt; search for happiness. {sisku lo selgleki} or {sisku lo ka selglek=
i}?<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; Which translation is correct?<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; The second one, but probably not for the reasons you&#39;d think.<br>
&gt;<br>
</div>&gt; [...]<br>
<div class=3D"im">&gt;<br>
&gt; With this definition, we can easily create a predicate meaning &quot;t=
o look for<br>
&gt; properties that make you happy&quot;, e.g. {.i mi sisku lo ka mi gleki=
 ce&#39;u}.<br>
<br>
</div>Didn&#39;t you mean to say events/states here instead of properties?<=
br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>No, I did intend to say properties, due=
 to my general philosophy about Lojban predicates: if an intrinsic connecti=
on between a sumti and an abstraction exists in a given selbri, then that a=
bstraction is a property of that sumti.</div>

<div>In some cases, this is more obvious than in other cases. What I consid=
er to be the most obvious case is {.i mi kakne lo nu do citka lo plise}. Di=
scovering the sheer nonsense of that sentence is what led me to believe tha=
t ka-abstractions are of paramount importance in Lojban.</div>

<div>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;=
border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
That&#39;s what gleki2 is supposed to be. Mixing up terms here is confusing=
.=A0</blockquote></div><br><div>It&#39;s been said in at least a few other =
posts, perhaps on this list, perhaps on the main list, that the type restri=
ctions in brackets in the gismu list are not prescriptive. In fact, I&#39;v=
e seen jcowan say that these restrictions where added in order to warn agai=
nst implicit raising, which was, at the time that the list was made, the ma=
jor concern with regards to abstraction places.</div>

<div>That being said, the gismu list simply tells us that the x2 must be an=
 abstraction, with the *suggestion* that it should be an event or state. I =
disagree with that suggestion, and due to its non-prescriptive nature, am e=
ntitled to use a ka-abstraction there.</div>

<div><br></div><div>.i mi&#39;e la tsani mu&#39;o</div><div><br></div>

<p></p>

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