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Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Place structure "types"
From: Judson Lester <nyarly@gmail.com>
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On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 12:43 PM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:

> What would be the problem with "do jenca mi"?  I suppose there's some
>> elided abstraction that I could use in the x1 place to mean "some event
>> related to you" - but why would that be neccesary?
>>
>
> Simply because the English "You shocked me!" actually means "What you just
> did shocked me!". This has to do with the issue "sumti raising", which has
> been bandied about countless times throughout the years.
>

I've got two follow on questions, then:


   1. The easy one: "tu'a do jenca mi" would be semantically valid, though?
    Maybe a little vague, but if you've just punched me in the face, maybe
   clear enough and readier to hand than "le nu do darxi fo le mi flira cu
   jenca mi"
   2. More philosophical: granted that it doesn't make *sense* most of the
   time that do jenca - because people aren't shocking - why isn't the
   convention that such places raise their sumti automatically?  Or is the
   idea that maybe there could be a brain-interacting object that fills the
   space?

Come to think, would it be reasonable to say something like "lo sidbo jenca
mi" or would it still need an abstraction related to 'lo nu sidbo fi mi' ?
 #2 in play as a "why not?" if not.

Judson

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<div dir=3D"ltr">On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 12:43 PM, Jonathan Jones <span dir=
=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:eyeonus@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">eyeonus=
@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote">
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;p=
adding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D"im"><blockquote c=
lass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1p=
x;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1=
ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>
<span style=3D"font-size:12px;font-family:Arial"></span></div><div><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:12px;font-family:Arial">What would be the problem with &qu=
ot;do jenca mi&quot;? =A0I suppose there&#39;s some elided abstraction that=
 I could use in the x1 place to mean &quot;some event related to you&quot; =
- but why would that be neccesary?</span></div>

</div></blockquote></div><div><br>Simply because the English &quot;You shoc=
ked me!&quot; actually means &quot;What you just did shocked me!&quot;. Thi=
s has to do with the issue &quot;sumti raising&quot;, which has been bandie=
d about countless times throughout the years.</div>
</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div style>I&#39;ve got two follow on que=
stions, then:</div><div style><br></div><div style><ol style><li style>The =
easy one: &quot;tu&#39;a do jenca mi&quot; would be semantically valid, tho=
ugh? =A0Maybe a little vague, but if you&#39;ve just punched me in the face=
, maybe clear enough and readier to hand than &quot;le nu do darxi fo le mi=
 flira cu jenca mi&quot;</li>
<li style>More philosophical: granted that it doesn&#39;t make *sense* most=
 of the time that do jenca - because people aren&#39;t shocking - why isn&#=
39;t the convention that such places raise their sumti automatically? =A0Or=
 is the idea that maybe there could be a brain-interacting object that fill=
s the space?</li>
</ol><div style>Come to think, would it be reasonable to say something like=
 &quot;lo sidbo jenca mi&quot; or would it still need an abstraction relate=
d to &#39;lo nu sidbo fi mi&#39; ? =A0#2 in play as a &quot;why not?&quot; =
if not.</div>
<div style><br></div><div style>Judson</div></div></div></div></div>

<p></p>

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