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Wed, 06 Mar 2013 13:09:23 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.204.4.217 with SMTP id 25mr351904bks.1.1362604163716; Wed, 06 Mar 2013 13:09:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lb0-f176.google.com (mail-lb0-f176.google.com [209.85.217.176]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id s1si2290918bkt.3.2013.03.06.13.09.23 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 06 Mar 2013 13:09:23 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.217.176 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.217.176; Received: by mail-lb0-f176.google.com with SMTP id s4so5959738lbc.21 for ; Wed, 06 Mar 2013 13:09:23 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.43.198 with SMTP id y6mr8163533lbl.93.1362604163278; Wed, 06 Mar 2013 13:09:23 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.114.5.196 with HTTP; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 13:09:23 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20130306202402.GK28629@samsa.fritz.box> References: <26109c69-7826-4420-9b39-18b7bb0d35fa@googlegroups.com> <20130306082228.GH28629@samsa.fritz.box> <20130306093911.GI28629@samsa.fritz.box> <20130306202402.GK28629@samsa.fritz.box> Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 14:09:23 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] lo ve tivni From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.217.176 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec52d4d311f341404d748019a X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.1 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / Content-Length: 9611 --bcaec52d4d311f341404d748019a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 1:24 PM, v4hn wrote: > On Wed, Mar 06, 2013 at 12:43:14PM -0700, Jonathan Jones wrote: > > On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 2:39 AM, v4hn wrote: > > > > > On Wed, Mar 06, 2013 at 01:54:32AM -0700, Jonathan Jones wrote: > > > > And, you know, broadcasting, which is the transmission of audio > and/or > > > > video by modulating the frequency and/or amplitude of an > electromagnetic > > > > wave being sent from a radio transmitter. > > > > > > > > > > ... which is only the third definition of "broadcast (verb trans.)" > > > > > > > It's the first definition on Collins English > > Dictionary > > > , Vocabulary.com , > MacMillan > > Dictionary< > http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/american/broadcast>, > > Wiktionary , > > Dictionary.com, > > and pretty much any other dictionary you'd care to look up, and it's the > > SECOND in Merriam-Webster< > http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/broadcast>, > > not the third. [the adjective, not the verb] > > > > Ok, first off, there seems to be a tendency to interpret the noun and > adjective > more often as relating to television than the verb/adverb and order > differs throughout > your links. More importantly, _EVERY_ page you lists also points out that > there is another > usage of the word meaning "make publicly known/spread out". > Do we have a different word for this concept (which in my opinion is more > general > and completely includes television/radio)? I don't know. Possibly jungau, or similar. What I do know is, we have three words for communication using electromagnetic transmission: benji (general transmission, which would include phone lines, Wi-Fi, Cellular networks, the internet, etc. (because of its x5)) cradi (radio transmission, i.e. audio only transmission via electromagnetic modulation) tivni (television transmission, i.e. video and audio transmission via electromagnetic modulation) > And no, {benji} does not solve this, because you can broadcast something > by making it available to others without transmitting it yourself. > If you mean you can give something to someone else to transmit for you, such as advertisers do, that's bejygau. If you mean any of the other definitions of broadcast, that's a /different word entirely/. > If not, it doesn't make sense to restrict {tivni} ba'e that much and I > would even vote > for adjusting the definition from "to television receiver" to "receiver". > What you don't seem to understand is that tivni /can't/ mean anything /except/ that, because Lojban words have /one/ meaning, or to put it another way, they can only equate to /one/ sense of an English word. The English word "broadcast" has many different meanings, or senses, three of which are prevalent. Each of these must be translated by /different/ words in Lojban. A "receiver" is a {lo te benji}. A television receiver is a {lo te tivni}. A {lo te tivni} is a {lo te benji}, but the reverse is not necessarily true. -- mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. --bcaec52d4d311f341404d748019a Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 1:24 PM, v4hn <me@v4hn.de= > wrote:
On Wed, Mar 06, 2013 at 12:43:14PM -0700, Jonathan Jones = wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 2:39 AM, v4hn <me@v4hn.de> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, Mar 06, 2013 at 01:54:32AM -0700, Jonathan Jones wrote:
> > > And, you know, broadcasting, which i= s the transmission of audio and/or
> > > video by modulating the frequency and/or amplitude of an ele= ctromagnetic
> > > wave being sent from a radio transmitter.
> > >
> >
> > ... which is only the third definition of "broadcast (verb t= rans.)"
> >
>
> It's the first definition on Collins English
> Dictionary<http://www.collinsdictionary.com/= dictionary/english/broadcast>
> , Vocabulary.com <http://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/broadcast<= /a>>, MacMillan
> Dictionary<
http://www.macmillandictionary.com/d= ictionary/american/broadcast>,
> Wiktionary <http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/broadcast>,
> Dictionary.com<http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/broadcast= >,
> and pretty much any other dictionary you'd care = to look up, and it's the
> SECOND in Merriam-Webster<http://www.merriam-webster.c= om/dictionary/broadcast>,
> not the third. [the adjective, not the verb]
>

Ok, first off, there seems to be a tendency to interpret the noun and adjec= tive
more often as relating to television than the verb/adverb and order differs= throughout
your links. More importantly, _EVERY_ page you lists also points out that t= here is another
usage of the word meaning "make publicly known/spread out".
Do we have a different word for this concept (which in my opinion is more g= eneral
and completely includes television/radio)?

I don't= know. Possibly jungau, or similar. What I do know is, we have three words = for communication using electromagnetic transmission:

benji (general= transmission, which would include phone lines, Wi-Fi, Cellular networks, t= he internet, etc. (because of its x5))
cradi (radio transmission, i.e. audio only transmission via electromagnetic= modulation)
tivni (television transmission, i.e. video and audio transm= ission via electromagnetic modulation)
=A0
And no, {benji} does not solve this, because you can broadcast something by= making it available to others without transmitting it yourself.

If you mean you can give something to someone else to transm= it for you, such as advertisers do, that's bejygau. If you mean any of = the other definitions of broadcast, that's a /different word entirely/.=
=A0
If not, it doesn't make sense to restrict {tivni} ba'e that much an= d I would even vote
for adjusting the definition from "to television receiver" to &qu= ot;receiver".

What you don't = seem to understand is that tivni /can't/ mean anything /except/ that, b= ecause Lojban words have /one/ meaning, or to put it another way, they can = only equate to /one/ sense of an English word.

The English word "broadcast" has many different meanings, or = senses, three of which are prevalent. Each of these must be translated by /= different/ words in Lojban.

A "receiver" is a {lo te benji= }. A television receiver is a {lo te tivni}. A {lo te tivni} is a {lo te be= nji}, but the reverse is not necessarily true.

--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo piln= o be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Lu= ke, I am your father. :D )

--
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To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
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Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
 
 
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