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Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2013 17:37:55 +0100
From: v4hn <me@v4hn.de>
To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Frequency of {lo} and {le}
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On Thu, Mar 07, 2013 at 03:04:42PM -0800, mudri wrote:
> Please don't groan about what must be another xorlo question.

I also keep asking/discussing and some others do as well, so
probably nobody will do that. {.u'i}

> I was reading http://www.lojban.org/tiki/How+to+use+xorlo again, and came=
=20
> across these two sentences: =E2=80=9CIn my post-xorlo writings, lo outnum=
bers le by=20
> about three to one (at a guess). I only use le when I'm talking about a=
=20
> specific item.=E2=80=9D. To me, those seem at odds. The first bullet poin=
t after=20
> this implies that the =E2=80=9Conly=E2=80=9D here is being used for effec=
t, rather than=20
> logic, so I'm still stuck.

Why?

> I would assume that specific objects are talked
> about as frequently, if not more so, than generic descriptions. At least =
on
> Twitter, where most of my writing practice happens, this seems to be the
> case.

Yes and I agree.

If you find yourself using {le} more often, this is no problem at all.
For me, I would assume, it's fifty-fifty.
There are a rather large number of cases, where the choice between {le} and=
 {lo}
depends on what you want to say _very accurately_ and therefore is a matter=
 of
preferences...

Some, like selpa'i, argue that {lo} does not _exclude_ specificity and can =
therefore
always be used in place of {le} (see his reply). In these cases
it's left up to context whether or not something specific is meant.

Others, like me, argue that it is important/useful to have a way of
refering to a specific thing - and might not even describe it accurately -
_in text_ rather than context. {lo} doesn't provide this.

One problem about the usage of {le} is, I suppose, the internet.
People often don't have enough common ground here to refer to
specific things, which might be described inaccurately.
If you use {le} and it's not clear what you're refering to,
you're more than unhelpful and violating conversation principles,
because people can't fix a proper reference.
For social platforms and real-life talk this is probably less of a problem.


v4hn

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