Received: from mail-la0-f63.google.com ([209.85.215.63]:64732) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1UOmvq-0005AD-Ek; Sun, 07 Apr 2013 03:34:49 -0700 Received: by mail-la0-f63.google.com with SMTP id fn20sf63464lab.18 for ; Sun, 07 Apr 2013 03:34:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x-received:x-beenthere:x-received:received-spf:mime-version :x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=jeuCcNe9E52TsXrxbvyx4X5fHuUhlBC1NCgwD2lNywU=; b=fWmxOogl+ZXT4Sx2gzWKytvqid3MB2zo1Jt1JlG9z0Ot7QyQbsnH3jPuu8lRPNt9Y8 b0qIMYIABfoReu2RW888Joh9VjSedTQjNAnRNg1vUn2cw1vbzcVmdolkIAPJlsC+/ONQ xuvII22xuT6zDralswxTF8jnVh6Kv3BQQ79QdEBO+UGI3R2Sem3pkfj2e//E6xL9zrkN iQa3Jzgm0QHVHF/A/galZwxV4nBD5Q1BRP78GQ4sno3ybVlViTB/YkjEsQF0BTMVCPyR maw12m/C90w0Og50omvQxaTaRauGAntBRD/TNFQyPAU2XboDJ2G/wLVrmQa5i/W6QL9z f/OQ== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:x-beenthere:x-received:received-spf:mime-version :x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-google-group-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=jeuCcNe9E52TsXrxbvyx4X5fHuUhlBC1NCgwD2lNywU=; b=ll/1tsImLsaG+iTpPBWw3101G9w2aPoAcEUA0N2p6DFznHj3VYrEHCbmA6n8XWxhyY 228/WtDN44Y8EFeft5yjYd2jvHVTZ4DU11j9vVdqfw2g1EzB8j/hNFEGf0mVJHQDnD1p ZFGd28dAC0YHwT1XlN00s7Ns9fT9xaYcYBXCnEEAXClN2cfqaHphk2iJOnwaiR+joA3R jSbWSmiPIlRNqUytcI8nCSe8xK7ACCg3VnS8VGoUdGN2uwon044oY+auKT6BM/+9l/1M p5hGQwteqnDuGqfgDfs56pJnl24VNNcwL24Dlj78F7Q1lH7Vss90qBAdwLk6Z3ZOE6dr /q6Q== X-Received: by 10.180.210.237 with SMTP id mx13mr357481wic.2.1365330873905; Sun, 07 Apr 2013 03:34:33 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.180.94.38 with SMTP id cz6ls630360wib.5.canary; Sun, 07 Apr 2013 03:34:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.205.65.201 with SMTP id xn9mr1325006bkb.5.1365330872042; Sun, 07 Apr 2013 03:34:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lb0-f181.google.com (mail-lb0-f181.google.com [209.85.217.181]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id i9si2149495bki.2.2013.04.07.03.34.31 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 07 Apr 2013 03:34:32 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.217.181 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.217.181; Received: by mail-lb0-f181.google.com with SMTP id r11so4884584lbv.40 for ; Sun, 07 Apr 2013 03:34:31 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.49.165 with SMTP id v5mr9598473lbn.67.1365330871622; Sun, 07 Apr 2013 03:34:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.9.230 with HTTP; Sun, 7 Apr 2013 03:34:31 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <1cc969db-afa1-40bd-b542-6ad94fec1e4c@googlegroups.com> <1c1f7857-1358-4b9b-953c-84480ab97559@googlegroups.com> Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2013 04:34:31 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] FA KU From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.217.181 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec554de349aa5e304d9c2dd83 X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.1 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / Content-Length: 7881 --bcaec554de349aa5e304d9c2dd83 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 4:21 AM, guskant wrote: > Le dimanche 7 avril 2013 16:10:25 UTC+9, la gleki a =E9crit : > >> On Sunday, April 7, 2013 10:49:03 AM UTC+4, aionys wrote: >>> >>> On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 12:32 AM, la gleki wrote= : >>> >>>> On Sunday, April 7, 2013 1:29:55 AM UTC+4, guskant wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Le dimanche 7 avril 2013 06:12:29 UTC+9, LordDraqo a =E9crit : >>>>>> >>>>>> Did you try "fi la lojban ku tavla"? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> I don't need to try it, but {fi la lojban ku tavla} means "talk about >>>>> Lojban". I meant {fiku} with no sumti should be x3, and a terbri next= to it >>>>> should be x4, but jbofi'e doesn't parse it as I expected. >>>>> >>>> >>>> I was wondering about that in past as well. I can't find that thread >>>> now but the funny thing is that >>>> {fizo'e la lojban tavla} does what you need. >>>> >>> >>> so does >>> >>> {fo la.lojban. tavla} >>> >>> and >>> >>> {la.lojban. ve tavla} >>> >> >> I guess guskant is searching for stylistic diversity which is indeed >> present here. >> Like >> in {fizo'e la lojban tavla} {la lojban} is tavla4. >> But in {fizo'e tavla la lojban} {la lojban} is now tavla2 !!! >> >> BTW, here is the old thread https://groups.google.**com/d/topic/lojban/*= * >> ZBpL4xoUwgQ/discussion >> > > ki'e gleki for the info. My problem is however a bit different from yours= . > > From your problem, I see jbofi'e forgets the places assigned by FA when a > selbri appears, and after the selbri, the default place structure is > applied. I would like to say it bothers mi'a who are not familiar with > European languages and should be a bug, but my actual point is something > other. > > According to jbofi'e, {fi ku la lojban tavla} means "Lojban is talker." > Even if {fi ku} doesn't mean /anything/, it is not a valid reason for > ignoring the usual rule "that after a FA-tagged sumti, any sumti followin= g > it occupy the places numerically succeeding it, subject to the proviso th= at > an already-filled place is skipped" described in CLL9.3. > Even {fi zi'o la lojban tavla} is parsed as "talk in Lojban" that I > expected. Why not {fi ku}? I would say, because {fi ku} is /not/ a FA-tagged sumti. Which it isn't. It isn't a sumti at all. --=20 mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den= . For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. --bcaec554de349aa5e304d9c2dd83 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On S= un, Apr 7, 2013 at 4:21 AM, guskant <gusni.kantu@gmail.com> wrote:
Le dimanche 7 avril 2013 16:10:25 UTC+9, la = gleki a =E9crit=A0:
On = Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 12:32 AM, la gleki <gleki.is...= @gmail.com> wrote:
On Sunday, April 7, = 2013 1:29:55 AM UTC+4, guskant wrote:
Le dimanche 7 avril 2013 06:12:29 UTC+9, LordDraqo a =E9crit=A0:
Did you try "f= i la lojban ku tavla"?


I don't need to try it,= but {fi la lojban ku tavla} means "talk about Lojban". I meant {= fiku} with no sumti should be x3, and a terbri next to it should be x4, but= jbofi'e doesn't parse it as I expected.

I was wondering about that in past a= s well. I can't find that thread now but the funny thing is that=A0
{fizo'e la lojban tavla} does what you need.

so does

{fo la.lojban. tavla}

<= /div>and

{la.lojban. ve tavla}

I guess guskant is searching for stylistic div= ersity which is indeed present here.
Like
in {fizo'e la lojban tavla} {la lojban} is tavla4.<= /div>
But in {fizo'e tavla la lojban} {la lojban} is now tavla2 !!!=


ki'e gleki for the info. M= y problem is however a bit different from yours.

From your problem, = I see jbofi'e forgets the places assigned by FA when a selbri appears, = and after the selbri, the default place structure is applied. I would like = to say it bothers mi'a who are not familiar with European languages and= should be a bug, but my actual point is something other.

According to jbofi'e, {fi ku la lojban tavla} means "Lojban is= talker."
Even if {fi ku} doesn't mean /anything/, it is not a = valid reason for ignoring the usual rule "that after a FA-tagged sumti= , any sumti following it occupy the places numerically succeeding it, subje= ct to the proviso that an already-filled place is skipped" described i= n CLL9.3.
Even {fi zi'o la lojban tavla} is parsed as "talk in Lojban" = that I expected. Why not {fi ku}?

I would s= ay, because {fi ku} is /not/ a FA-tagged sumti. Which it isn't. It isn&= #39;t a sumti at all.

--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko c= mima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the = Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

--
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Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
 
 
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